I’m a fanatical devotee of baseball, and a fan of hockey, football, and basketball. I watch the Olympics. When the Blue Jays won the 1993 World Series I danced in the streets.
But what the Christ is up with soccer fans, huh? (Yes, I know most of the world calls it “football.” Screw them. Football is played by men on steroids with helmets. The men wear the helmets, I mean, not the steroids.) Soccer riots, soccer hooligans, fires at soccer stadiums, knifings, mob violence, there was even a Soccer War in Central America. Why is soccer so closely related to rioting?
I mean, we all see stuff like riots after the Lakers win the championship and stuff, but there’s no North American equivalent to the European love of actually going out into the streets and stabbing one another.
So here’s the question; why do Europeans kill each other over soccer more than other fans of other sports seem to want to?
Most sociologists attribute soccer hooliganism to class differences in other countries. That’s a pretty simplistic explanation, but this question could lead to a VERY LONG debate about all of the causes of hooliganism.
It’s not just European nations. I seem to recall two South American countries (Colombia maybe and ?) briefly going to war over the disputed result of a match (the referee’s objectivity was brought into question). Also, during a recent World Cup one player from a South American team was killed when he got home because he made the error that caused his team’s early exit from the competition.
(Even Cricket caused the withdrawl of the Australian High Commissioner - Ambassodor to you non Commonwealth folk - after a particularly nasty match against England in the 1940’s)
Both Africa and Asia (Indonesia, Thailand) have seen outbreaks of serious violence at club rather than International level.
Why ? I think it’s just become a traditional way to express tribal loyalty. I also suspect it is not a coincidence that the average football hooligan is not a rocket scientist, not an academic achiever, is late teens/early twenties and isn’t frightened of a beer or two. Football has become the accepted forum in which people of a particular mind set can share and express their small minded, bigoted and nationalistic view of life.
Seems some of the fans of the LA Lakers are getting the hang of it - getting tuned up for the Olympic’s, I assume.
The “Soccer War” actually took place in Central America. It was a four-day conflict between El Salvador and Honduras. After a controversial ending to an Olympic qualifying match, the two countries started duking it out with armies. There were long-simmering tensions between the two countries over a border dispute and the soccer match just sort of pushed everything over the edge.
The soccer violence is absoluetly appalling. Nevertheless, we all have to keep in mind that the hooligans are only a small fraction of the fans, a few thousand in comparison with millions (billions?) in total.
Otherwise, I agree with the other posts. It seems to be a way for young men to rid themselves of warlike hostility. It isn’t a pretty sight at German train stations before and after gametime, you can take my word for it.
Before you jump on the football (soccer) hooligan bandwagon, remember that many major US sports team championships are accompanied by riots and violence, not just the recent Lakers victory ‘celebrations’. Americans seem to think that they are immune to such behavior, but it just ain’t so. It’s just that Americans expect fan violence from football (soccer) fans, but are, inexplicably, shocked when it happens in LA or Chicago.
Well, though I am not a hooligan, I am a big soccer fan. I usually only watch on TV though.
Anyway, my thought on the violence: soccer is war. I really mean that. Let me explain; in a country (such as the as the USA) you have the National Hockey League, the National Hockey League (though I consider this more Canadian, me being Canadian and all), and you have the national sport: baseball. The American sports fan’s reasoning is, “Hey we’re all American first. We’ll get that championship next year. We’re still the world’s only remaining super-power, so I can still be happy.” But soccer is first and foremost international, each team represents a country. Thus, each team is really like an army. In this world, nationalism has become like a religion (think of how patriotic you get when you see the flag). And, not to step on anyone’s toes, what has religion caused in the past? Lots of wars. Wars are still being fought today over religion. But people think it’s just a sport, and then tempers higher and fuses shorter until finally something happens.
Also, numerous soccer countries are poorer countries. One of the few ways to impress the world is to win a soccer championship.
Also, here’s a couple of stats: the Soccer War killed over 5000 people.
The most violent soccer fans: Argentina’s, hands down. They’re known as the Barras Bravas. When the Bocas Junior team was playing River Plane in 1994 in Buenos Aires, on of the Barras Bravas, pulled out a machine gun and killed two of the opposing players. Around 6 people are murdered a year in soccer-related violence.
Some scary thoughts. Anyway, later all.
What might amaze you even more is that South American soccer teams routinely pay gangs to take part, organize, and promote violence. The Barras Bravos is one perfect example.
They are used to sort out boardroom battles where, if there is a threat of takeover, the ‘fans’ wil riot in support of the paying director.
Sometimes this is completely outside the control of the club and is in the personal control of individual board members who use them as private armies.
Wonderful as US sport may be the rest of the world does not give a stuff about it, so with so little at stake, merely a franchise increasing its earning potential, it is hardly surprising that Americans find soccer violence so stupid.
American big league sports are about wealth but soccer is played in the poorest and least well educated nations where it is dirt cheap. Many nations playing soccer have emnities that go back hundreds of years or are based on idealogical or religious grounds.
How would you feel if the foreigners playing your team represented a nation that had recently murdered all your family such as Yugoslavia vs Croatia.Under such circumstances a game of snap could easily get out of hand.
There is no excuse for the mindless idiots that the UK produces or the Dutch or the Germans .
The vast majority of games take place without incident but as usual you will hear most about the games where there is disorder.
I’ve been a season-ticket holder to the DC United since MLS started. The largest fan group at every home game is a group called the Barras Bravas. They are (primarily) Hispanic and extremely boisterous, playing drums and horns throughout the matches, but non-violent.
I don’t think they’re the “local chapter” or anything.
Not always true, however. Here in Germany, NBA and NHL scores (sometimes NFL, MLS, almost never baseball :() scores are regularly carried in newspapers. Basketball, ice hockey and of course American Football fans here all follow U.S. sports avidly.
It was the 1994 World Cup in the USA, and it concerned the Columbion defender Escobar (what’s in a name?). However, it later turned out that Escobar was shot when he got into a row over a parking space. I don’t know about y’all, but I’d rather get shot for an own goal :rolleyes:
As passionate as I am on the matter, I for one am not getting into this debate again. The OP, albeit probably intended in jest, shows enough ignorance to warrant a Pit thread in itself. But let’s not go there.
In short: some people are assholes. Football fans or not. THAT’S why the shit hits the fan every now and then. The nature of the game has very little to do with it.
According to the UK police soccer violence intelligence unit alchohol is not necassarily what starts much of the violence though once it is under way it certainly feeds the fire.
There are loosely organised groups who stay very sober in order to light the blue touchpaper and then they stand back to keep an eye on proceedings, if things should look like they are going quiet they stoke it up again.
These people have been recorded at many incidents and some are currently languishing at her majesty’s pleasure.
The Chelsea headhunters are one group that was succesfully infiltrated and broken up.
They are difficult to gain access to because they are such an informal, loose groups who generally know each other from differant walks of life. Getting in is by personal referral and one ‘vote’ in is not enough.
We in the UK take the problem seriously and are prepared to imprison them once the correct procedures have been followed such as gathering evidence etc.
The continental authorities have a history of simply arresting everyone in the vicinity, innocent or not, and deporting them.The general opinion here is that this does nothing to prevent a reocurrance as we cannot remove passports or take action against people who have no recorded offences, if they were properly prosecuted and convicted then the UK authorities would then have the ammunition to physically prevent these people travelling.
Who knows, we would even be able to prosecute convicted hooligans who attempt to travel for going with intent.
It may be expensive to go through the full criminal justice system for the continental authorities but my opinion is that it is far too expensive to continue as we are