What to do about alcoholism/addictions and drunk drivers

In My Humble Opinion
1

I started this thread in General Questions to query how I might get updated court information on my brother who recently violated his probation in Montana. I’ve expanded the discussion in that thread and decided it might be better discussed in this forum. I imagine it would fit in the Pit or Great Debates too, but really I’m interested in others’ opinions and experiences with this issue, either personally or professionally. This [is] a continued debate in the medical/scientific/corrections fields and I don’t think there is a consensus about the causes or solutions to the many societal problems caused by alcoholism/addictions, including drunk driving. I don’t believe that demonizing and stigmatizing all alcohol (or even recreational drug) use is the answer.

I’d love to know what others think and what’s worked elsewhere.

2

My view’s probably going to be pretty unpopular, but here goes:

While I believe that alcoholism is a disease I do not believe that alcoholic = drunk driver. One can be an utter drunk without ever getting behind the wheel of a car. One who does get behind the wheel of a car has gone beyond the realm of “disease” and into the area of “public health hazard”. I believe that sanctions for DUIs should match sanctions for attempted manslaughter and throw in mandatory counseling as well. Taking away the keys for 90 or 180 days rarely if ever does the trick.

Yeah, it’s harsh. shrug Gotta hit rock bottom sometime. Rather sooner than after someone’s killed.

3

I think that people use drugs (including alcohol) for various reasons. General rules about what is abuse should not be made by society.

Someone who is impaired with a legal substance should have the level measured (BAC in this case) and later have the chance to prove that they can drive safely with that BAC level. This could be done by administering that dose needed to get his BAC up to the level he was caught at, then having him take a road test. If his ability is good enough to qualify for a license then there should be no issue.

I see no reason to jail a drunk driver who’s driving ability is superoir to other legal drivers of lesser ability esp. older people.

Just my humble O

4

I think the motto that appears all over our state should actually be applied.
It reads “Drunk Drivers Go To Jail” and shows a guy in a striped shirt and hat behind bars.
But you have to drive drunk many times, it seems, to actually get jail time.

In Sweden, I understand, your license is lost on the first conviction, for life.
That makes sense to me. Driving drunk is like shooting a gun blindfolded - when an “accident” happens, it’s not really an accident at all.

5

Hey Jill. I did make a quick pass at gathering some statistics, but was unsuccessful and I don’t have a lot of time to devote to it tonight.

But I’ll offer some anecdotal observations. Texas, as did many other states, ramped up DWI penalties ~15 years ago. It is now major bad news to get busted, and a second bust is a visit to hell.

For some people the legal consequences remain something they don’t seem to notice, but for many, myself and many acquaintance included, personal knowledge of the newly heavy consequences did make an impression.

While I did not get arrested myself, a buddy with whom I’d been drinking one night did, soon after the new laws took effect. His tale of woe put me forever off of drinking and driving. I’ve been a taxicab consumer ever since, when such is demanded.

And many of my friends are now of the same mindset. We just make alternate arrangements for transportation if we’re gonna drink.

Or, don’t drink in a social setting (say, 50 miles down the road at a beach party) that makes taxicab transportation cost prohibitive.

This is, of course, in a state where we all grew up with it being perfectly legal to be drinking a beer while you drove down the road.

It’s had an impact.

It has not entirely cleaned up the situation. But it has made an impression. Some of that positive effect I percieve may well be attributable to the fact that my compatriots and I are ageing, and concomittally mellowing out. I don’t know if the younger d&d drivers are picking this up yet.

Another arena where new enforcement arrangements have definitely had an impact concerns all of those subject to drug testing. While I don’t smoke marijuana, I’ve known and know several people who do, or did. Many people have quit because of this.

So, while I do think that there’s much that is screwed-up about the drug and alcohol laws we live under, the fact remains that certain sanctions do seem to have an effect.

Others, of course, have adverse effects.

And your brother seems to be one of those who remain, for a while at least, immune to the remonstrations of the local criminal justice system.

Good luck with it, Sister!

6

This is true. The best friend my mom ever had got a really embarassing DUI back in the early 80s, where she slapped a few cops, and basically made a complete ass out of herself.

The next day, she apologized to the police officers and from that day forth, if she so much as popped the top on a can of beer she did not get behind the wheel of a car.

Unfortunately, she died of alcoholism in 2002. I believe she was 44 :(.

7

I don’t remember if I mentioned that my brother has had five DUI convictions (some coupled with aggravated assault charges) in Montana, at least three (that I know of) in California, and two in Nevada. He has served time in prison in Nevada and Montana. In this current case, my brother has a lawyer helping him with a plea bargain: because he has agreed to plead “guilty,” they may not hold his “persistent, habitual offender” status against him. If he wins, he will get off with yet another short prison sentence and probation.

On the Corrections website where I found his mug shot and descriptions of his last four convictions, I noticed that he has seen the same judge each time, who generally gives him a reduced or suspended sentence. Another quick websearch led me to an article that appeared in the local paper there the same day my brother went to court. It’s a story about the weekend DUI arrest of this same judge. Fancy that.

8

Wow – I’m speechless! Seriously that’s messed up… :confused:

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:mad:

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One DUI does not equal alcoholism. The risk of a person who has gotten one DUI of being an alcoholic is not really statistically significantly higher than that of a person who never had a DUI.

But if a person has had two DUIs the risk of being an alcoholic ramps up tremendously to in excess of 75%. Three DUIs, and you’re in the 98+% range.

11

JillGat, from reading your account about your brother, it seems to me that he’s like a bratty two year old who has learned that his parents (justice system) don’t discipline effectively. He’s been able to plead down to lesser crimes, not serve the full sentence, get his license back sooner than expected, etc. Do you think that he might have taken the situation seriously if he’d received swift, sure punishment the first few times he transgressed and suffered the full penalty? It seems to me that he thinks he’s getting one over on the system and he’s never had to face the seriousness of his actions.

Believe me, I’m not trying to upset you but that’s the impression I get of your brother. I wonder what it’s going to take to make him wake up before something tragic happens.

12

It’s absolutely true that he never, ever takes responsibility for his actions or admits that anything is his fault. It’s almost comical how far he will go and what language he will use to make everything sound like someone else’s fault (usually the person who must have had a grudge against him, so called the cops and turned him in). So he projects blame AND is awash in self-pity. These traits are fairly typical in alcoholics - along with some paranoia (“everybody is out to get me!”). I don’t know that alcoholism CAUSES this kind of thinking necessarily. It might just be that this kind of person has a much harder time taking responsibility for their behavior and making real life changes.

It’s also amazing, though, how badly a person can bottom out and suffer for their actions and yet continue to repeat them. My brother has spent most of his adult life being punished in one way or another for his alcoholism. I can’t imagine he would choose this over the alternative. It’s mental illness, for sure.

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And it appears that the repeat offenders are the big problem: “5% of the drunk drivers cause 90% of the injuries and deaths.”

14

After 11 years of running AA/Al-Anon/Al-A-Teen groups, four years of which were spent working on a forensic psych unit, I can say that the 12-step groups are for a certain breed of individual who truly has hit rock bottom and is invested in getting better. Nothing was worse than a court-ordered client; they invariably came in utterly pissed and non-compliant, and screwed up the group dynamics for weeks. “Long-term”* substance abuse counseling (5 days a week for 8 weeks, 4 hours a day) had about the same success rate. The best program I’ve found so far, and have recommended in the past, is Rational Recovery. It’s sort of a 12-step program, but based in cognitive-behavioral therapy and run by licensed counselors, not an individual whose only expertise comes from 30 years as an alcoholic,** and requires individual as well as group counseling.

I’m sorry that your brother is consistently behaving like a sh**. Maybe if he gets in front of a different judge, things will be different and he can be “encouraged” to get the help he needs.

[sub]

  • As long-term as anything gets in the days of Managed Health Care.
    ** No offense intended to the 12-step people, who have been doing amazing work for decades, but there’s more to helping the hard-core individuals than being able to commiserate about the nights you can’t remember.[/sub]