I did ** not ** say that you had not “matured, grown and learned”. I said that **I ** had (since I was a teen). Please don’t assume a personal insult where none was given.
Your position was that especially for those of you who had committed the same offense, to cut Mr. Nenno some slack. My counter point to that is even if we had been irresponsible as teens, we hopefully have matured, grown and learned, and, more to the point, that teens need the adults around them to behave responsibly.
As far as “jumping on his back”: I gave him a list of other considerations, and commented that as a parent, I would have been furious to not have been notified (true statement, not coming down on him), and that "I understand that you were trying to use your best judgement. Just have those other considerations in mind. " I submit to you that this does NOT qualify as “jumping on his back” , and in fact is MUCH more mild than other people who said things like “you really screwed up”. Which, frankly is STILL ok, since Mr. Nenno posted in “IMHO” and asked for comments.
And frankly, being drunk in school ** is** automatically a problem. First of all, it may be a sign of other problems as well (as I noted in my OP).
Other problems are: the student is underage. Alcohol is not a good thing to add to a growing body. and it’s illegal for her to consume, possess and purchase. It’s also illegal for some one else to give to her. which means some illegal activity went on. Being under the influence, can often allow some one unaccustomed to the effects, to act in other ways that may be detrimental to them (unprotected sex for example). AND, as I tell my teenaged son, “school is your work place”. Just as it would be very inappropriate (and probable cause for firing) for an adult to come to work under the influence, it’s just as wrong and inappropriate for the teen to be drinking during the school day.
Since Mrs. Kunilou does not have access to the SDMB, I’ve tried to relay the gist of this posting to her. Her opinion differs from mine and based on the fact that she’s been a teacher for 30 years and I haven’t, she deserves to get her points in, even though I don’t agree with everything.
First off, since the student in question had been sent to the office for acting drunk, the situation was being dealt with and Bear needn’t have gotten in the middle of it. So she agrees with Bear on that point.
However, to have a 14 or 15 year old cut class and then show up drunk is a serious problem, even if she’s a good kid, it’s the first time, etc., etc. By not impressing on her that actions have consequences and that serious actions have serious consequences, and even worse, by taking a “kids will be kids” attitude about it, Bear dropped the ball and is perhaps trying to be “the cool teacher” even though he says he isn’t.
If Bear hadn’t intervened in the first place, I think we’d owe him a little slack. After all, no one has time to deal with every problem they see, even in a circumscribed world such as a high school.
But once he verified that she was drunk, it became his problem, as a teacher in that school. Once he’d moved into the situation, he’d committed himself to acting as a representative of the school in that situation. Once he was aware that she was drunk, and especially once she was aware he knew she was drunk, there was no way off the hook. Any failure to deal with the offense of drunk-in-school in the prescribed manner, from that point on, eroded the credibility of the rules.
That’s part of what we owe our young people in the way of nurture - a set of reasonably clear rules that we are willing to enforce. That’s one of the things we do to help them find their way to maturity.
except that the situation was already being dealt with. it was reported by someone presumably at or higher than bear’s level to someone whose responsibility was to levy punishment. does every cop who sees a suspect being booked at the police station need to re-arrest the suspect and re-book?
bear’s only responsibility after that would be to support the first teacher’s judgement if it came to a ‘student’s word against her’s’ situation.
Zwaldd, I respect your opinion, but I see two problems with your argument:
No, a cop who sees a suspect being booked at the station doesn’t need to re-arrest the suspect. But if the cop talks to the suspect and the suspect admits, “Yes, I committed the crime but no one but you knows that I did it,” then the cop has a duty to tell someone that the suspect confessed to him – ESPECIALLY if the cop believes that nobody but himself, because of his specialized training, will be able to know for sure that the suspect actually committed that crime.
Since Bear did not originally tell anyone else that he had talked with this girl, nor had he told anyone else that in his extremely educated opinion she was in fact drunk, there would be no way that anyone could use his word to support the first teacher’s judgment. The girl certainly isn’t going to offer him up as a witness, since she knew that he knew she really was drunk.
OK. But understand that, though I did not go out of my way to make sure she got the book thrown at her, I made it very clear that what she had done was very stupid, dangerous, set a bad example to students who look up to cheerleaders, and yada, yada. I talked to her for a rather long time about how much trouble she could possibly get in, what she could lose, how this would have to stop, … I talked about her future, her plans for the future, how there is no room for fucking up like this and she should think about consequences more. I told her that I would be keeping my eye on her and that if I ever caught her doing anything wrong again, I would make sure that I reported it to every AP, the principal and the cheerleading coach. I told her I know that people her age a drinking and experimenting but she should use her head and stay safe and not be stupid enough to come to school drunk. I scared her a bunch of times by saying that I should just go call her mom, or just go see how the cheerleading coach feels about what she did. We actually had a very good little talk in my opinion. It ended with her asking me what I was going to do. I told her to just go back in there and sit down. The APs will take care of it. (Knowing they would probably not figure out she was really drinking) After school I saw her, talked a little bit more with her and asked her what kind of trouble she was in. She said that her mother had to call the school tomorrow. I told her she was very lucky and everything and she better not do such a thing again. Honestly I think she got more from me than she would have from some “grown-up” telling her how evil alcohol is and how no one that young should ever go near it less they end up some future drunk and die of liver disease. Kids are smarter than that. Telling them that drinking causes cirosis of the liver does not effect them at all. Explaining that drinking at a party is normal (provided you dont feel pressured to do so) just don’t drive afterward and dont go to school after you drink is a much better message IMHO. Though you parents out there may not believe it, going to school drunk is not an uncommon thing. Neither is going high or taking other drugs. In fact I checked her mouth for trips of acid and asked her about other drugs. I talked to her about those for a while though she had not admitted to doing any ever. It is one of those “Things to do” I guess… Like the Mile High Club, some people just want to say they did it. Well, she’s done it, got it over with and hopefully she will not make a habit of it. I would have been keeping my eye on her this year by stopping her randomly and talking to her and making sure things are ok. But… now I am not allowed at that school so I can’t. And believe me, no one else is going to do all that. I always stop students I know and make sure things are going right- encouraging them to do better in school, stop doing so much drugs… get a boyfriend their own age… get more out of school… try to have more fun while you’re here… stuff like that. Sue me for caring.
oldscratch, I know it came off in that thread like I was trying to say there was something so wrong with people getting naked on stage, etc. That was not my intention. In fact, I spent the entire thread trying to get people to realize I was not saying that! This post here sums up my position. Which was “Do not get pissed off at those cops for doing their job. They did not make the stupid ass law”. Also, though I gave this student a break, I do not think I could get pissed off at a teacher who was more harsh on her. Same with police work. My roommate is a Deputy, he and I share moslty the same views on things (including this situation). He hardly if ever writes traffic tickets and I will not write many tickets either, and I would rather not make arrests for bullshit like lapdancing offenses! However, I do not think it is fair to criticize the ones who do. That is what I was trying to get across to everyone.
OK that link sucked… just scroll down to the bottom and read the post with the story about the new lapdancing law in it. (BTW, the law will probably be repealed in a few months. Huzzah!)
This shit really pissed me off when I was in high school. Popular kids would always get warnings and ‘talks’, even those who repeatedly came to school drunk or high, while the less conformist kids would usually get punished rather severely for first offenses (well, severely by late-'80s standards).
I’m aware of that. Where we differ, I guess, is how best to respond to that. Parents shouldn’t feel they have to send their kid to the ‘Christian’ school just to get him/her away from all that.
Bear, by the way - while I don’t agree with the way you handled it, I don’t think you committed The Crime of the Century or anything. It sounds like you thought you were doing the best thing to help this girl out. I hope you can get back into the school somehow.
Acid comes on little squares of paper. I am sure there are other ways to take it. But a very common one is to put these little pieces of paper under the tongue or somewhere else in the mouth. The acid is absorbed into the body from the paper.
Trips is a slang word for acid also.
However…don’t they generally suck on it, then swallow the paper. It would seem to take a fool to get caught sucking on a hit of acid.
Hell I gnawed on bigger pieces of paper in High School to destroy evidence. A little quarter inch square should disappear w/o a trace(well other than dialated pupils) if they wanted.
You were concerned enough at the time to check her mouth for acid (and indeed, only a complete fool could get caught with it still in her mouth) but not cocerned enough to alert the pricipal? I’m getting mixed signals here.
I dunno, Bear. After talking with my wife I was willing to cut you some slack. But it sounds like you’re still taking the “kids will be kids” attitude. I completely understand that kids go to school drunk or high. I think it’s the primary responsibility of the school (and that means you, as long as you’re teaching there – or a substitute) to impress on the students that it’s not only stupid and dangerous, but it won’t be tolerated.
Teenagers live for “next time we’re really gonna get tough.” The same instinct that tells them they’re indestructible tells them there won’t be a next time.
No. It wasn’t like I really suspected anything. I asked her if she had been drinking and she said “No”. So I said then what are you on? You on drugs? “No”. You’re on something, open your mouth.
That’s all. It was just part of the conversation. I did not really think she was on drugs, but she was under the influence of something and I needed her to admit to what it was.
I see what you are saying. But I was trying less to tell her what punishment she would recieve ‘next time’ and spent more time talking about how such poor decisions would affect her life in general.
Well I just have to say that I am currently enrolled in high school, and I know many many people who come to school stoned as hell. Once I was talking with a guy who was rolling on Ecstasy (sp?) and he did seem a little too friendly…but not many people would know unless they knew what X does to you. Anyways, I knew a kid who just got kicked out of school because he got caught with weed for like the third or fourth time. Anyways, I dont see anything wrong with coming to school when you are stoned, but it shouldnt be a regular thing. I know that if I did it and I had anything on me I would probably be paranoid all day, but if I was clean, my mp3 collection would constantly be playing in my head all day. Thats not really a bad thing…Man I get off track quickly. At some point I might move my head to the beat which would look…a little weird…Then in study hall I would probably fall asleep on the floor and wake up in 8th period or something…Whoa, I just got a good idea to make school more interesting tomorrow! Thanks SDMB, you’ve always been there for me!