What was/is the appeal of Garcia and the Dead?

Cafe Society
1

Now, I don’t mean that in a snarky way, where “What was?” means “What could possibly have been?”. I’m just curious, and in fact, I can’t snark because I have next to no knowledge of Grapefruit Bread. (As my friend used to call them. He was not a fan either.)

I don’t know the band’s history, for one. How did the tour cycle begin and thrive?

I don’t know too many Deadheads. What elevated Garcia in their eyes?

I’m not familiar with the music apart from the unavoidable songs. On what level did it reach fans – melodically, lyrically, other? My friend said he gave up trying to appreciate GD after the person who was pushing them told him “You kind of have to be stoned.” Since he didn’t kind of have to be stoned to appreciate Pink Floyd or Zep or Hendrix (although that never hurt), those remained his favorites of the era. But is that true to any extent? Did they keep producing albums throughout the years of touring, or was it the same songs every year? Were they classified as “acid rock”? Funny thing, I can’t get enough of the minor-league acid rock bands, so it’s odd, if GD was the best of the lot, that I can’t get into them.

So if anyone can enlighten me. I’m 37, so I’ve been aware of the Deadhead phenomenon all my life. I have nothing against the band or their fans; I’m just in the dark here.

2

I’m not a huge Dead fan or anything, but I imagine much of the appeal is the actual experience of being at a Dead show and the whole culture surrounding it.

The music itself is kind of chill. It’s kind of a non-pretentous meandering folksy, bluesy light Souther rock sound. Kind of like a lighter version of the Allman Brothers. So people who go to see the Dead aren’t there to rock out. They are there to wander around a muddy field in their tie die shirts, smoke some weed and just hang out.

I would characterize them more as a “jam band” than “acid rock”. I think acid rock has a harder sound like Hendrix or Jefferson Airplane. That is to say they are known for long rambling solos and selling more concert tickets than albums.

It also paved the way for other “jam bands” later on like Phish, Dave Mathews Band, Blues Traveler, Rusted Root, O.A.R. and others.

3

[QUOTE=msmith537]
I’m not a huge Dead fan or anything, but I imagine much of the appeal is the actual experience of being at a Dead show and the whole culture surrounding it.
[/QUOTE]

Got it in one. Go to Archive.org and you will find about 45,000 live performances available for download and 3,225 are* The Grateful Dead.*

4

[QUOTE=Rilchiam]
Now, I don’t mean that in a snarky way, where “What was?” means “What could possibly have been?”. I’m just curious, and in fact, I can’t snark because I have next to no knowledge of Grapefruit Bread. (As my friend used to call them. He was not a fan either.)

I don’t know the band’s history, for one. How did the tour cycle begin and thrive?

I don’t know too many Deadheads. What elevated Garcia in their eyes?

I’m not familiar with the music apart from the unavoidable songs. On what level did it reach fans – melodically, lyrically, other? My friend said he gave up trying to appreciate GD after the person who was pushing them told him “You kind of have to be stoned.” Since he didn’t kind of have to be stoned to appreciate Pink Floyd or Zep or Hendrix (although that never hurt), those remained his favorites of the era. But is that true to any extent? Did they keep producing albums throughout the years of touring, or was it the same songs every year? Were they classified as “acid rock”? Funny thing, I can’t get enough of the minor-league acid rock bands, so it’s odd, if GD was the best of the lot, that I can’t get into them.

So if anyone can enlighten me. I’m 37, so I’ve been aware of the Deadhead phenomenon all my life. I have nothing against the band or their fans; I’m just in the dark here.
[/QUOTE]

I typically end up in the same place - not a fan, not inclined to be a fan, but really curious what could possibly engage so many fans. I have aged out of my need to dismiss things I don’t like - it takes all kinds. I just don’t get The Dead and haven’t heard anything musically that encourages me to keep looking. As a guitarist, Jerry has a wonderful ability to play arpeggiated, melodic leads that are pretty.

I went to one Dead show - at the Shoreline with Bruce Hornsby on keyboards. Through connections, I had a limo to the show, backstage passes (got to hang out with Bill Walton, w00t!) - the whole bit. It was a fun experience and one I would consider doing again. But the thing that entertained me was the *experience * much more than the music (per msmith537). The music was almost Muzak - a well-suited background context for the activity at hand - in this case, hanging out with a bunch of like-minded DeadHeads. No disrespect meant by that - a cool nightclub needs the right soundtrack, as does an upscale clothing store. This particular event’s soundtrack happened to be the Dead - but it functioned better as a soundtrack, IMHO, as opposed to being the point of the show…hope that makes sense…

My $.02

5

We were talking about this at my house over the weekend. Wife was a fan, I was not. I always figured the drugs had to play a big part, but then I was the stoner and I couldn’t bear the Dead. Went to a couple of concerts. Had a good time. But could never appreciate their tedious jamming that deadheads thrill over.

6

You had to be there, man. :smiley:

The music, man. It was just…awesome, dude. Really. Jerry and Pigpen jamming, Bill doing his thing…heh…where was I?

7

My sole GD experience was being at Candlestick Park Opening Day 1994 and hearing them do the National Anthem acapella.

8

I’m a recovering Deadhead (meaning that I’ve not worn a tye dye in years and I only have 15 or so bootleg concert tapes left) and I remember the first time that the Dead “clicked” for me. If you wanted to search that Archive.org site and look for 05/19/74 from Portland Oregon and start with the Truckin in the second set you’ll get a good example of what the Dead could do when they were on fire.

When they were on, they were the best bar band in the entire world. When they were off, and boy did that happen a lot, they were horrible. Like with a lot of other things you have to sift through the rubbish to find the diamond in the rough. I just liked that it took me 15 years (this was before the internet) to get a handle on the bands discography. Imagine a band that had a near infinate output and that never played the same thing the same way more than once. Good times.

9

[QUOTE=Cluricaun]

When they were on, they were the best bar band in the entire world. When they were off, and boy did that happen a lot, they were horrible. Like with a lot of other things you have to sift through the rubbish to find the diamond in the rough. I just liked that it took me 15 years (this was before the internet) to get a handle on the bands discography. Imagine a band that had a near infinate output and that never played the same thing the same way more than once. Good times.
[/QUOTE]

Yes. I was a teen in their heyday. Well, I guess they had a long heyday, but I was 17, 18, 19 the times I saw them, which was the early 1970s.
What first attracted me to them was their countrified American Beauty sound.
Then there was the other fun stuff, like throwing pot from the stage.
IMHO, The Dead were alt-country before the term existed. They were sincere, but for better or for worse, did not take themselves too seriously.
Boulder Colorado 1972 was a good one.

10

[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
I’m a recovering Deadhead
[/QUOTE]

But…but…but - I thought you were a metal dude, Dude? :confused: Or at least into shredding guitar, right? And if there’s one thing Jerry did NOT do, it’s shred…

:smiley:

11

Man, this thread has me going over set lists, trying to remember every time I’ve seen the Dead. There were some great shows over the years. Some total trash, of course, but it’s the stellar nights that stand out. I never got into following the band, but I’ve seen them all over the West: Winterland, Anchorage, Irvine, Shrine, Swing…and more than a few I’ve forgotten. Truly good times.

12

The appeal is definitely not in the studio albums- maybe only Workingman’s Dead and American Beauty would be considered above average albums.

13

[QUOTE=WordMan]
But…but…but - I thought you were a metal dude, Dude? :confused: Or at least into shredding guitar, right? And if there’s one thing Jerry did NOT do, it’s shred…

:smiley:
[/QUOTE]

I know, but let me put it this way: Like lots of guys who grew up in the 80’s/90’s I was a punk rock kid. As I got to be a better guitar player I got tired of the traditional 3 chord songlist and became more of a metal guy, which I remain to this day. As my playing progressed, so did my horizons as to what was hip to my ears. Jerry Garcia might not “shred”, but boy could he play the everloving shit out of the guitar, so I dig it. Any given day my CD changer can see a Dead disc, a Pantera disc, a SRV disc, a Mahavishnu Orchestra disc, and an Opeth disc. I just love guitar based music where the player plays with that certain fire. It’s true however that every band I’ve ever been in was mostly a metal band and that’s where the allegiance of my ethos lies to this day. I’m far more likely to throw the horns than a peace sign. I don’t get down with that hippie mentality quite so much.
As far as keeping my ethos in order, I consider the Grateful Dead to be the most punk rock band of all time. Punk is not a musical style as so much it’s an attitude that you do things your way, all the time, without compromise. They were outlaws, pirates of the world. They played anywhere, any time for the sole purpose of expressing the idea that music can be a powerful force to change your life and any time is a good time to seek new converts for having a rock and roll epiphany. That’s pretty fucking punk rock in my book.

14

*Cluricaun ** - thanks; well-articulated and given your thinking, it makes sense. I see how you look at the Dead as punk, given your definition. I think I disagree using different criteria, but that’s not the point - it works for you and makes sense given what you look for in music.

[slight hijack]

Since you like “guitar based music where the player plays with that certain fire” may I suggest Virtuoso #3 by Joe Pass? If you like jazz guitar - not shreddy jazz fusion, which I put into a different category - more in line with be-bop and hard bop - then this solo instrumental CD is the tits. His technique is out front and completely mind-blowing, but the songs are smooth and musically interesting. It’s like one long Eruption for straight-up jazz guitar - that goes down smooth…

[/slight hijack]

*a key to something being punk, to me, is it having an element of danger. While the Dead “lifestyle” is outside normal circles, it doesn’t feel remotely dangerous to me - it just feels, I dunno, groovy…and musically, they aren’t dangerous at all, IMHO - it’s mostly roots music that could be played in front of unsuspecting grandparents back in the day…again, YMMV.

15

I saw the Dead once, in 1969; they played in the college gym, since it was a couple of years before we had a real concert auditorium. They had huge stacks of smallish speakers, in various colors, but all in what I guess could be called earth tones. Nonetheless, didn’t play particularly loud. They played their own stuff, and tons of covers, all of which were well done. Although they jammed, they did not, as far as I recall (though it was a very long time ago) indulge in the very long jams that they became famous for. It was probably the longest concert I’ve ever attended, or at least my ass thought so, since the only places to sit were in the bleachers or on the floor.

They were nowhere near the best band I’d ever heard, but there was something about them. I seemed like there was hardly any distance at all between them and the audience. I have been to many shows by local bar bands that were less intimate than theirs was. I think that must be part of the appeal.

16

[QUOTE=WordMan]
a key to something being punk, to me, is it having an element of danger. While the Dead “lifestyle” is outside normal circles, it doesn’t feel remotely dangerous to me - it just feels, I dunno, groovy…and musically, they aren’t dangerous at all, IMHO - it’s mostly roots music that could be played in front of unsuspecting grandparents back in the day…again, YMMV.
[/QUOTE]

I think that in their heyday the Dead were dangerous. I wasn’t there so I don’t know first hand, but from what I hear they were hard blues playing acid rock dudes until the 70’s and mischevious party monsters that rolled with the Hells Angels and that’s dangerous in anybodys book. I know that towards the end when the mayor of the town they were playing in would come out to the show in a Jerry Garcia tie and hand them the keys to the city they weren’t dangerous anymore, but when was the last time the Sex Pistols scared someones mom? As time passes it becomes something else that holds that danger, be it The Beatles or Marilyn Manson (who has passed his nadir as well) or whatever is now the scary band de jour.

Rock and roll is always a little bit dangerous to parents, it will always be too sexy or to drunk and high or too loud and that’s a good thing. Dad might have smoked a doobie at a Doors concert back in the day, but he’s still wont to pass his daughter off into the hands of <gasp> musicians. :wink:
ETA- I’ll totally check out that record. I’m always down for someone who smokes on the axe.

17

[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
I think that in their heyday the Dead were dangerous. I wasn’t there so I don’t know first hand, but from what I hear they were hard blues playing acid rock dudes until the 70’s and mischevious party monsters that rolled with the Hells Angels and that’s dangerous in anybodys book. I know that towards the end when the mayor of the town they were playing in would come out to the show in a Jerry Garcia tie and hand them the keys to the city they weren’t dangerous anymore, but when was the last time the Sex Pistols scared someones mom? As time passes it becomes something else that holds that danger, be it The Beatles or Marilyn Manson (who has passed his nadir as well) or whatever is now the scary band de jour.

Rock and roll is always a little bit dangerous to parents, it will always be too sexy or to drunk and high or too loud and that’s a good thing. Dad might have smoked a doobie at a Doors concert back in the day, but he’s still wont to pass his daughter off into the hands of <gasp> musicians. :wink:
ETA- I’ll totally check out that record. I’m always down for someone who smokes on the axe.
[/QUOTE]

That all makes sense - time and perception of danger evolves…

And yeah, check out Mr. Pass - I would love to hear your thoughts…

18

Never been to a Dead concert, although I do remember where I was when I heard Garcia died. I actually had a friend in college named Jerry Garcia, poor guy. Someone told my other friend Colleen that Garcia had died and she started crying, thinking it was our mutual friend.

But I did go to a Phish concert after they were “passed the torch”. Although the music was groovy in it’s own way, it was more of a jammin live type thing than something I would run out to the record store to buy. It was definitely about the experience of being there, and the commonality of the people, all being nice to each other and sharing their groovy natures with each other. A big love in if you will.

/hijack/ has anyone taken up the torch after Phish?

19

[QUOTE=jackdavinci]
/hijack/ has anyone taken up the torch after Phish?
[/QUOTE]

Not really. There are a few jam bands still making the scene as it were such as Widespread Panic and moe, but some recent visits to college campuses around here has demonstrated that hippies are a dying breed. I blame Dave Matthews personally, but then again I’ll blame Dave Matthews for damned near anything.

20

[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
I blame Dave Matthews personally, but then again I’ll blame Dave Matthews for damned near anything.
[/QUOTE]

How can you say that? Haven’t you heard them? They’re much better than they sound!

:smiley:

(sorry, I love invoking that line - which I think I first got from another poster here - whenever I can…)