They served Kool-Aid as the beverage at a sit down dinner? That just sounds intentionally idiotic, nevermind racist and nasty. Wow.
Sigh…yes…
I probably should add that we were going through a “phase” with our cook. We had just lost our wonderful, long-time cook who made the best meals ever, to retirement. We hired this new woman, and she didn’t, uh…work out so well. In fact, now that Asimovian mentions it, it wouldn’t suprise me if that was her exact rationale when she chose the menu. Not in a mean way, just an ignorant one. At least she didn’t serve them her tater-tot-cassarole. I’d rather appear racist then have them eat that abomination. :rolleyes:
The formal dinner thing changes it a bit: that is not really formal dinner type food, IMO (especially Kool Aid).
I think the best way of handling this would have been for the sorority president to call over to the fraternity president and say, half-laughing, half-apologetic, “Hey, listen, I just checked with the cook. This may be nothing more than white liberal guilt, but here’s the menu she’s prepared, and I’m sure she means nothing by it: [describe menu]. Do you want me to change this?”
Unless the frat president is an idiot, he’ll laugh and say, “Of course not, that sounds delicious.” And he’ll tell the frat brothers, who will laugh at the absurdity of the thing, and things will not be a problem.
Daniel
I wouldn’t disagree that that could be a reasonable course of action, and might have worked out well, but it wasn’t done. Given that the Greek establishment in general has some unfortuantely bad history in regard to race relations, I would tend to lean to the overly sensitive side and not even mention it to them. We should have just cooked something else and been done with it, which was my suggestion. We might have had to delay dinner by an hour or so, but it could have been done with out much to-do. Heck, replace the fried chicken with some grilled chicken breasts and the Kool-aid with ice-tea, and you have a nice, cheap, quick, and relatively tasty meal that potentially offends no one.
You really think this is just white liberal guilt? I dunno. But on our campus (rural, somewhat southern, low percent minorities other than asian), there was still a significant amount of tension in regard to race. I’d hate to even unintentionally make that worse.
My reaction to Galena’s story was the same as Asimovian. Even if it had been one big ole coincidence, it would not have been unreasonable for the guests to be left wondering whether race had been a factor in the menu’s selection. In that way, it would have been a distraction at best, and offensive at worse.
Part of being racially sensitive is putting yourself in the other person’s shoes and asking how a certain action might be perceived through their eyes. It’s not about feeling guilty.
Wow. Is that really his only choice? Maybe he was genuinely looking forward to a real dinner. I don’t think Kool-Aid sounds delicious. Would I be an idiot for saying so?
What would even be the point her asking if she had the one proper response (absolute prostration) completely drafted for him? Isn’t that more than a bit condescending?
You might not be an idiot, but you sure would be rude. If someone is hosting you for dinner, you need to have a real good reason for suggesting changes to the menu, or for not being gracious.
That’s not prostration: that’s making someone aware of a potentially rough situation in a slightly oblique fashion, allowing him to inform other members of the fraternity in advance so that the frat prez can tell the other frat brothers that they’re going to be having this meal and that it’s not intended to be an insult.
I guess I think of fried chicken and watermelon as, first and foremost, standard picnic food; thinking of it as a racial insult would be pretty obscure for me (I never heard of that stereotype until pretty late in life). Maybe it’s a more common and more hurtful stereotype than I thought, if a lot of African American posters perceive it as a stereotype first and picnic food second.
Daniel
Except they weren’t having a picnic; it was a formal dinner. There is a big difference that lends it more to “racial stereotype” and not “standard formal meal”.
If I’m expecting a formal meal and the host calls up and said, “Hey, here’s the deal. We’re having Koolaide. The red kind with tons of sugar. Is that okay?” I might be obligated by etiquette to say “Why yes, that sounds wonderful”, but I sure would think bad things about my host because of the following questions:
- Why am I being served Koolaide at a formal dinner?
- Why is the host asking me if Koolaide is okay, as if Koolaide is the only choice available? If they’re unsure of the Koolaide’s appropriateness, why not serve something else? Why are they leaving the decision up to me?
I don’t blame Galena at all for being worried about perceptions in this particular situation.
I was served a similar menu at a formal meal and my thoughts were that either someone was trying to be funny/mean, or that they were clueless. I thought more people were aware of those stereotypes, but apparently not. Plus fried chicken doesn’t seem to be featured in picnics that often around here. I see thee options of burgers, brats, grilled chicken (in chiavettas) or beef on wick more often.
I agree. It’s been a long time since I’ve gone to a picnic with fried chicken. When I think of outdoor eating, my mind goes to barbeque. Fried chicken is more of a Sunday dinner thing than picnic thing, IMHO.
I totally agree (see post 63). The bit you’re responding to is itself responding to a bit of a tangent :). And yeah, monstro: I’d be a little bugged at someone that served me Kool-aid even at an outdoor picnic (which, again, I recognize this wasn’t–this is still on the tangent), but if someone told me that they found out the cook had innocently put together a menu that I could construe as offensive, and they were letting me know to give me the option to request a different menu, I’d have to have a very, very good reason to say anything other than, “Oh, no, that sounds delicious!” Etiquette often puts us in situations where we perform a complicated dance like that.
Around here, fried chicken is definitely a part of picnic dinners, more rarely a part of a formal dinner.
Daniel
It was in 1953. I was stationed at the Naval Hospital in Portsmouth, Virginia, going to Hospital Corpsman school.
After an evening’s liberty in Norfolk, I was waiting for the the ferry to ride back to base, when one of my classmates, a black kid showed up, so we chatted until the boat arrived.
We boarded and I automatically went left for the usual passengers’ section, but I sensed my friend was not with me. I looked back, and saw he was headed in the other direction. “Hey!” I yelled. “Where’re you going?”
He didn’t turn, just kept on walking, and pointed upward with his left hand.
On the wall toward the top, I saw two signs with arrows:
White
<----------------
Colored
------------------>
I still carry the shame of that moment.
I didn’t know until this thread that kool-aid was a black stereotypical drink. Learn something new everyday.
Not just any Kool aid, the red kind. Black people* love red kool aid, grape drink and orange soda.
*These are just the stereotypes folks. I’m not saying all blacks love these things…hope that didn’t need to be pointed out, but there it is, just in case.
This raises an interesting question to me: is this a stereotype that’s widely known among white people?
Daniel
Most of my non-black friends (of which I have many) are certainly aware of the Kool-Aid bit, but I obviously can’t speak for the majority of folks. I only know of one friend who knows about the grape/orange soda thing.
Ha!
When I first started grad school, a guy in my lab constantly pestered me about the grape/orange soda thing among blacks. I’d never heard of such a thing, and I told him he was out of his mind.
Fast foward to summer break, during my family reunion. I went grocery shopping with my mother and wouldn’t you know it? She bypassed the Sprite, Coke, and Ginger Ale and went right for the grape and the orange. I asked her why we couldn’t have “regular” sodas and she said, “Our people like grape and orange.”
I was flabbergasted and outraged that this particular stereotype was not only based in reality, but that it had totally eluded me for 23 years.
Well Shagnasty Dung Beetle and MsWhatsit have posts that are about noticing blacks drinking more orange soda than whites. That’s the only term I ran a search on, and I just grabbed a couple of the threads, but there were more. I’ve had people mention it to me in real life, but can’t say how well known this is in the white population in general. Of course, lots of stereotypes are based on the truth, so I think these examples should count.
Are you kidding me? How did you survive without the proper sustenance for so long? 
I can remember the little student store we had in my elementary school sold Welch’s grape soda in the cans, and I lived on that stuff. I rarely drank anything other than orange soda when I got to go to McDonald’s. Of course, as a mature and upstanding adult, I would now choose bottled Strawberry Crush over either of those (thank you, BevMo!).
On the other hand, I’ve never been a Kool Aid fan and probably haven’t had any since I was of single-digit age.