[QUOTE=Spartydog]
I would think that Green Bay, WI would be the most oversaturated city when you consider the value of the franchise compared to the population and income.
[/QUOTE]
Green Bay’s franchise is publicly owned, unlike any other NFL team.
BTAIM, I believe you will find less people that think the Brewers or the Bucks are “their” team in the entire state than those that believe the Packers are (and this would include the UP of Michigan).
[QUOTE=Spartydog]
So if Tokyo has 12.6 million population and Green Bay, WI has (according to their website) 103,000 then Tokyo would have to have approximately 122 pro sport franchises to be as saturated as Green Bay. That doesn’t even begin to take into account the value of the franchises. The Packers are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
I’ll stick with my original contention that Green Bay, WI is the most saturated sports market.
[/QUOTE]
This will probably be my last post, as my guest membership is up after today but…
WTF does the city population have to do with it?
There is only one pro NFL team in the state, and the entire state is “loyal” to the team…the entire state (and beyond) IS PART OF THE DEMOGRAPHICS.
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan]
:eek: :o :smack:
North west.
[/quote]
I know, I know, I’ve been living in East Anglia too long.
[QUOTE=Usram]
How would a lower level English soccer team such as Leyton Orient compare to the US franchises the OP is talking about, though? It appears that many (most? all?) minor league franchises, not listed by the OP, are professional.
[/QUOTE]
I did think about this as I typed the post, but there’s no single way to decide what does and doesn’t count, and certainly ‘are they professional’ doesn’t cover it. That there are more professional minor league franchises can just indicate how much money goes into a particular sport into a particular country, or can demonstrate how the funds find their way down from the top level.
(And note that the the four-division cut-off I set is actually arbitrary, because of the trend towards semi-professionalism and even full professional setups in Conference teams)
[QUOTE=anson2995]
And Kansas City came this close to adding another major league team before the deal that kept the NHL’s Penguins in Pittsburgh.
What do those first three cities have in common? They all got expansion baseball teams in the 1990s that are struggling to keep afloat.
[/QUOTE]
How are any of those baseball teams struggling to stay afloat?
The Devil Rays are bad on the field but are financially secure. The Diamondbacks and Rockies are doing fine.
[QUOTE=amber03]
This will probably be my last post, as my guest membership is up after today but…
WTF does the city population have to do with it?
There is only one pro NFL team in the state, and the entire state is “loyal” to the team…the entire state (and beyond) IS PART OF THE DEMOGRAPHICS.
[/QUOTE]
The OP was asking about saturated sports markets. Green Bay is a market, a very small market to have a franchise as valuable as the Packers. Milwaukee is the closest city of substantial size and it is 120 miles away. It’s not like Anaheim and Los Angeles. In between Milwaukee and Green Bay are a lot of farms, some small towns and cities and not much else. Milwaukee is not part of the Green Bay market even if they have a lot of Packer fans. The Patriots have a lot of fans in Hartford, CT, Providence, RI, etc. but those cities aren’t part of the Boston market. (Foxboro is part of the Boston market).
“Saturated” indicates to me an element of teams per capita. If Tokyo had one professional franchise for every 103K residents it would have to have 122 pro sports franchises to be as saturated as Green Bay.
The OP said nothing about who considers what team to be “their” team. Nothing was asked about # of fans. The question was market saturation.
amber03 - What does the fact that the Packers being publically owned have to do with it? They are still and extraordinarilly valuable franchise that could be sold and moved.
Well, what is market saturation? Is it just about population density of a specific conurbation? Why does Manchester Utd have a far greater and wider market than Manchester City?
All of the information posted in this thread has been interesting to me to read, and is greatly appreciated. Thanks, folks.
Spartydog, you are pretty well correct about the intent of my original question. I think that as I formed it, I was thinking more about the size of the area rather than the population within it, but I agree that population density is the fair way to make the comparison.
[QUOTE=RickJay]
How are any of those baseball teams struggling to stay afloat?
The Devil Rays are bad on the field but are financially secure. The Diamondbacks and Rockies are doing fine.
[/QUOTE]
Poor choice of words on my part. Those teams are financially solvent, but they’ve all struggled with attendance. The Rockies ranked 23rd in attendance last year, the D-Backs were 24th, and the D-Rays were 29th out of 30 teams. All three are currently averaging less per game this year than they did last year.
My point was that when these teams first arrived, there was a huge surge of fan interest, but that has worn off. Each of these teams is struggling to draw fans, in large part because they are in over-saturated markets.