We? I didn’t realize you moved to the US.
But remember, at that time, there was some sizeable middle ground on which the majority of Americans and politicians agreed on the continuation of services and responsible governance. The Viet Nam War was inexcusable (tho historically understandable) - but during it’s waging we saw the Civil Rights Act, the creation of the EPA…. US participation in VN was not - in and of itself - a threat to (what many of us consider to be) fundamental rights such as speech/press, due process, equality, checks and balances, and just basic goodness and civility.
For the life of me, I can’t imagine what the R majorities in Congress and the Supremes see as the desirability of the powerful unitary executive, such that they willingly relinquish their authority and eliminate the system of checks and balances. But they seem to be so willing.
Moreover - who is going to “rebel” following any “last straw”? A liberal coalition? A coalition of states? How, and against whom? With private weapons against private MAGA? Against the military? So far, has there been any meaningful failure of ICE, the prison system, the military to carry out Trump’s agenda?
As BB noted upthread, we have seen effective quashing of recent protest. I fully expect such quashing to become more violent - with little we can do about it. And less reliable reportage. Meanwhile, most of us will remain happy frogs swimming along as the water gets warmer and warmer. As I understand it, there have been some quality of middle class existences in most authoritarian regimes. And the wealthiest do just fine. Sure sucks to be at the bottom, tho.
This is the answer, we had a movement and it was seen as a black uprising.
…the authoritarian take over of governments and institutions isn’t an American only thing. Its a global thing. All from the very same playbook. I’m just as fucked where I’m living as you are in America. Our government has just announced sweeping voter suppression tactics. Its all the same thing.
This raises the question of what, when, and for whom the last straw will come. So many things have already happened that no one would have thought possible, and no one—no institution, no Republican, no one—has said that this cannot go on, that it must be stopped. Everyone bows to Trump’s will. There is no last straw anymore. One reason for this could be that Trump has a lot of support among the population. Why, understand who will. Apparently, corruption, nepotism, and childish tyranny do not deter people. They prefer them to democracy. Without a profound change of heart and determined action on the part of the population, developments will continue in the interests of Trump and his entourage until they have achieved their goal.
Kent state was shocking because the victims were white college kids, it was one of the few times that white middle class boomers paid any price for their activism. It’s why a measly four dead was such a big deal. As long as authorities brutalize people of color, there won’t be a reaction.
As long as they toe the line. There are several Russian oligarchs who discovered too late that billions of rubles do not give one the ability to fly.
Stop paying senior citizens their social security. They might start with the disabled checks first.
That might get a bunch of old folks out on the streets and they’ll be easy to run over.
…every movement and uprising is gonna get smashed. The media will kinda imply “they deserved it”, and everyone will quietly move on.
Alec Karakatsanis is a civil rights lawyer who has spent an ordinate amount of time dissecting how the New York Times is one of the leading proponents of “copaganda.” An example is here, twitter link sorry.
He has multiple examples of how the New York Times deceptively shape stories through headlines and copy.
Which brings up a delightful aspect of our capitalist system - we have seen media organizations and law firms being gleefully willing to change their behavior and agree to settlement - simply because it is in their (short term?) FINANCIAL interest to do so. Never mind that their acquiescence is directly contrary to the most vital principles of their professions.
Ain’t capitalism grand?
The last straw was Trumps’ starting point. He attacked the American patriotic icon John McCain. I believed it was over for Trump right there. But it wasn’t. He crashed through that barrier and raced headlong down hill. What have always been scandals Trump wears like badges. Divorce, rape, felony, corruption, even impeachment wrap around him like a suit of armor. He awakes each morning looking for another sacred cow to slay. There is no fatal line.
Trump is all political theater. The only defense against Trump will also be political theater. It requires a Big Jim Folsom or a Huey Long. Candidates who combine a history of achievement with a strong theatrical image. I don’t see any on the political horizon.
Yeah, even on this board after 1/6, we had Republican apologists who whined that not all Republicans supported Trump’s despotism. This was before the midterms and definitely before the latest Presidential election, but I asked them what percentage of Republicans would at least not vote rather than vote for someone who supported 1/6. Even 10% abstaining would produce an amazing landslide for the Democrats, and that would still be an unacceptably high percentage of authoritarians in America.
But we didn’t even get that. So the vast majority of voting Republicans support 1/6 since they re-voted for the people who performed it.
Kent State was not universally regarded as a tragedy or bellwether at the time. It was seen by many as unfortunate, by others as “if those kids were innocent they wouldn’t have been there,” by still others as FAFO. And who here remembers the Jackson State killings 11 days after Kent State?
America was polarized then, as it is now. Polarization is an opportunity as well as a problem. However, trying to win over the middle, in the hope of patching things up the way they were before, is unlikely to be a successful tactic.
The middle, by which I mean much of the middle class, that amorphous group between capital and workers, and those who are “I see your point, but on the other hand,” and those who are “I appreciate your ends but I disagree with your means” is actively pursuing its own goals that are distinct from the right and the left. It only appears to be temperate, moderate, and able to compromise and work things out and stay the course. But as the poem goes, the centre cannot hold and it is helpless utopianism to think it will. The question remains “which side are you on?” and these days, “the middle” is no longer a side that has anything to offer.
On a positive note, after the fall of western Rome, it was pretty awful for most in Rome, but in the former provinces, life often improved considerably. Our last best hope may be to help prepare for a very different society, or more likely societies, after the collapse of the American empire.
Eventually, but in early days they will avoid gunning down whites. That’s the real lesson of Kent State, don’t kill our white kids and we won’t care. In the early days the Nazis picked their targets more carefully, but after the bombing of Hamburg, there were widespread protests against Hitler in Germany by all segments of German society. Guess how that went.
The fundamental question is can a dictatorship be imposed on a country as geographically large, ethnically and politically diverse and with a tradition of liberty as deeply ingrained as ours. I don’t think so. Who knows what the last straw will be? I don’t, but I’m sure that there is one. I remember the movie “V For Vendetta” where it was the shooting of a child for graffiti on a wall. Will something like that happen to a young white girl? That might do it.
The last straw will be when Trump goes after Congressmen themselves. Right now the R and D Congressmen are still living comfortable cushy lives and don’t want to rock the boat. But they are personally in jeopardy by the Trump administration, they’ll act.
It can if we vote for one in federal elections and state oligarchs profit from it.
That could never happen here! You’d never find a picture of all of the richest men in USA bowing and scraping at some authoritarian’s inauguration.
As mentioned: a huge portion of the country already leads a life of “be thankful for and enjoy what you have” “be the gray man who’s not noticed” “I get screwed anyway by politics whoever’s in charge, why should I care”. There’s no “straw” for them.
Repeating what was said elsewhere, a core belief of so-called “conservatism” is that there is a (choose: natural/god-given) social order and people should know their place in it, or else be put in their place — and that THAT is “rule of law”.
The reason Trump keeps getting away with all of this? The modern Republicans are results-oriented . You deliver the result they want, it’s “right” by definition. He’s “putting people in their place” so he’s doing it right.
And they see themselves as thus conducting a preemptive strike. Again thus Trump is an example: “You tried to ruin/jail me for something a man like me should have the right to get away with so I’m going to ruin/jail YOU for something that was completely legit.”
We know why. Because running THAT headline would anger him and make him want to launch into a new round of measures to punish those who made him look bad.
Then they won’t DARE act.