As has been said (directly at you) many, many times: this is not correct. If May’s deal is not accepted by friday, there are two more weeks to think of an alternative plan of action which could literally lead to an extension of years.
I can’t think of any reason why you find this so hard to grasp. Well, I can think of some…
I’m also disheartened and sad and disappointed in my country. But please hold on.
Sometimes I think of it like this: we are witnessing the decline and fall of the Roman empire AND we realise what is happening. Observing how history is unfolding, standing on the shoulders of giants to see the parallels with other civilisations that declined and fell, and one day we’ll be able to see how it went down without having to read those dense volumes because were there.
Seems kinda cool from that perspective. Or maybe not but it’s what I have to cheer myself up about the state of the world. Yay.
Please don’t hurt yourself.
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The EU has ruled out renegotiation with May’s “red lines”. One of the options up for voting is essentially to switch to Labours plan which has fewer red lines, and which the EU has said would allow further negotiation.
As today has shown, May might not have a choice whether to revoke. Parliament could take control and force her to (or force a referendum that would force her to). Under normal circumstances this would be almost impossible, but at the moment anythings possible.
No deal is still the default path, but until we have actually left there’s still a chance for things to turn around. Remember, last week we were all set to drop out on the 28th, no possibilty of May asking for an extension, then she was forced to change her mind.
Is anyone reminded of the Iraq war? Lots of fear and fabrications about ominous threats and a blunt, simplistic solution. Anyone with reasonable objections is dismissed as effete and treasonous. Then the ill-advised adventure is started which is soon enough followed by “Oh shit! This isn’t turning out like I thought it would” because plans based on delusions seldom work out as intended. Then a complete unwillingness to recognize their own mistakes (with a few exceptions like David Frum).
The last bit is especially important because the impression it gives is that they haven’t changed and if you give them anything, they’ll find a way to fuck it up again. They’re like gamblers who can never accept that gambling is bad for them and that other people are no longer willing to enable them in their delusions when they say: “Just extend me a little more credit, I can turn it around this time!”
As a European citizen, don’t you have the benefit of freedom of movement within the EU? It’s your turn to be a job-stealing immigrant in another EU country. Instead of being a bad hombre, you can be a bad lad.
Better act quick 'cuz you might not be a European for long.
I will never forgive any Conservative party for this volte-face, she had one postponement, two massive defeats, and one rejection by the house speaker, and she STILL has the opportunity to pass her deal because she now has bribed the ERG to step down after it passes, not only that, will likely ignore any indicative vote even after the attorney general said it would be illegal, as well as the BBC is also humanising her position, which is a complete disregard for any democratic standard.
I was never bothered too much by Cameron, he was a technocrat, but I absolutely without a doubt hate Theresa May with all my heart and will gladly stamp on her grave.
You may have to stamp on it with your walker, old timer. She’s only 62.
I’m considerably younger than her, I’ll wait.
Seems that the DUP have re-iterated their objection to the current proposed withdrawal agreement. Arlene Foster’s twitter:
It’s hard to see how it can pass on a third meaningful vote now, even if it were to be allowed back by the Speaker.
Well.
Riiiight.
I was talking about parliamentary monarchies in general, not yours specifically. I know yours doesn’t do that. I never grokked it.
I was merely thinking in terms of all of the crown lands & buildings not being nationalized, but holy shit you people hand her over 80 millions a year ? For waving her hand and signing postcards ? When she’s already the richest person in England !? That’s insane.
Don’t get me wrong - I do like her. She seems like a good person, and a real person, and that’s not nothing especially considering where she comes from and how she grew up. I recently learned that she made an impromptu appearance at a couples’ wedding who had invited her as a joke. Just a pair of nobodies having a laugh - and she came anyway, just to make their day. That’s so sweet it makes me want to vomit.
But still, 80 million fricking pounds ?!
My president is a wanker, and he does get paid (though probably not to the tune of 80 million), but he does things. Arrogant, corrupt, contemptuous, damaging things ; but he does them !
Eh, honestly, killing Louis II just a little bit wouldn’t have been such a bad thing. And Saint-Simon should have gotten it in the neck for his writing style alone. I’m just sayin’.
Here’s how the indicative votes went
tl,dr no majority for any option.
Any chance for another vote? M wasn’t terribly far off.
Just a nitpick: this isn’t the queen’s salary (she doesn’t get one), but the costs of the monarchy. The largest item is upkeep on the buildings; Buckingham Palace’s heating bill is notoriously high, for example. Thirty million pounds of the Sovereign’s Grant this year is going towards the renovation of Buckingham Palace, including removing asbestos and dangerous wiring, replacing the 1950s-era heating plant, fixing the roof, etc. If the queen didn’t live there and the whole place was merely a ceremonial and tourist attraction (cf Versailles, Neuschwanstein, Alexander Palace, etc.), it would still need a new heating plant and electrical wiring and roof repairs.
(The queen does pay personally for the upkeep and repairs at the homes she owns personally, such as Balmoral, but Buckingham Palace belongs to the British Crown, not to the queen.)
Wait, even at this late date, over a quarter of Parliament actively supports No Deal? That is astounding and deeply troubling.
(And, of course, by failing to have any plan at all, they are by default supporting No Deal.)
The vote that allowed this evenings events also has provision for Monday for further similar votes - a run-off maybe. That’s assuming nothing changes before then, of course.
She’s not remotely the richest person in England. She’s not even remotely the richest aristocrat.
Steophan,
Maybe I’m wrong about the following but I thought I’d check: If your goal in participating in this thread is sharing your Brexit-related anxiety and getting empathy, that’s a completely understandable need. I might feel it just as keenly as you if I were in your position. This thread is probably not a good place for it and blaming the EU is not a good way of getting a sympathetic ear. A thread that focuses on the emotional and practical effects of Brexit might be more helpful.
Well, I only could think of 1 that surpassed her myself, but him, and several of the others might fall in the rankings come Brexit when their serendipitous geographical holdings fall in value.
J was the closest though. If they could lure five people over to the aye side, it would pass. What’s meant by “custom union” here? Is that more-or-less like the Norway option that’s been mentioned?
Based on those votes, it seems to me that the EU made the correct decision. They have concluded that U.K. politics is completely dysfunctional on Brexit, so best to get it over with as quickly as possible.
No, quite different. Norway in fact is not in a customs union with the EU.
With a customs union:
there are no tariffs at all on trade between the member states; and
the member states have a common system of tariffs with the rest of the world.
The result is no customs issues at all when goods move between member states.
Customs unions are common - there’s 10 or 12 in different regions of the globe, with between them about 100 member states.
There can still be non-tariff barriers to trade, though, in the form of different regulatory requirements which may still involve paperwork, compliance, border inpsections, etc., and their cumulative impact can be significant. Participation in the Single Market removes these barriers.
Norway participates (substantially) in the Single Market, but not in the Customs Union.