What would a modern day physician be able to do in a medievel society?

If a modern day medical doctor were transported back to say, 13th Century England during the Black Plague, how much practical good would he/she be able to do with all the benefit of 21st century knowledge but without the technology or pharmaceuticals? How could a modern physician adapt current knowledge to the tools and drugs available in a pre-industrial society? What kind of things would he be able to diagnose and treat and how would he do it? Would it be possible to manufacture any kind of antibiotics from bread molds or something? Would it be possible to use modern knowledge of pharmaceuticals to synthesize anything from plants or other raw materials which might be available.

Let’s assume that money is not an object for this hypothetical physician. He can get his hands on pretty much whatever materials exist in the medievel world and can get full cooperation from assistants and patients.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

That’s a toughie. Lacking pharmaceuticals it would be tough.

Applying the principles of cleanliness, lancing abscesses, and using appropriate antiseptics like distilled alcohol would probably save some lives. That and doing a decent job of splinting bones would help make some difference.

Also not bloodletting would be a big step up from the standard practices then.

But otherwise besides using opium for pain relief, foxglove for heart failure, and willow bark for fever, we wouldn’t be able to add a lot. At least I wouldn’t be able to. Not without thinking about it a lot more!

Suggesting vermin extermination programs might be useful. Actually, maybe a modern day exterminator would be more useful then a doctor.

I know it would take a while to do something useful with it, but penicillin? Knowing about it centures ahead of schedule, and knowing that it will actually work in the end so you don’t give up as Fleming did for a while. And penicillin kicks bubonic plague’s butt, doesn’t it?

Lacking the facilities to make sure you picked the right mold which makes it, and even if you do get lucky and get the mold, trying to mass-produce it, would be highly unlikely.

It was so hard to make, and in such small amounts that early in WWII when it was given to soldiers, their urine was collected so it could be recovered and used again!

You could get everybody to rub up against cows (or alternatively milk maids) to vaccinate against small pox. You could clear the granaries of rats to fight off plague. You could stop people from crapping in their drinking water to prevent a bunch of other diseases. You could offer suggestions on diet and clean food practices. Not a lot of this has to do with being a doctor, but even a lay person could do a lot to ease the lives of medievel society.

Many pharmaceuticals have origins in herbal medicines, so if you have some inkling of where the modern medicines came from, you could make weaker versions of them.

Ok, how much difference with a decent research type PharmD that paid attention in “History of Pharmacy1A” on hand?

Just from decent wound care and trauma surgery knowhow how many lives could be saved from battlefeild casualties.

Actually, I’d think the biggest challenge for our time-hopping Doc would be getting anyone to listen to him, and believe him.

And not burn him at the stake as a witch (warlock? whatever).

I already mentioned cleanliness, (which to me meant public health, I should have elaborated), proper abscess (wound) care, and better orthotics.

The cowpox thing is a good idea.

But even with a pharmacologist in tow, it would be tough.

Doubtless some herbs with antibiotic properties could be found.

The thing to remember is that the modern medical community really does stand on the shoulders of giants. All that technology, all that learning, all the recorded data really underpins our modern efforts.

And a lot of the diseases I’m trained to fight were not prevalent back then. Diabetes? Very rare. Heart disease? Forget it. Most diseases were due to poor nutrition and infection.

Again, just basic hygiene and public health efforts could be what makes the biggest difference.

I agree with you (as always) but I think you are underselling the enormity of the impact. Certainly an understanding of the causes of disease–in particular epidemiology–has led to as much of impact on public health as have antimicrobials. The falloff from death due to infectious illnesses is as much or more attributable to concepts of public sanitation, and antedates antimicrobials for the most part.

There is a second impact: stop with the harmful crapola. The nutty bleedings and god-knows-what-other treatments which are injurious. Stop with grabbing tongues and predicting a patient is about to get a terrible illness when the real problem is you are the carrier and just transmitted it to that patient. A bunch of other stuff–prenatal care; avoiding STDs; decent wound care; better midwiferey; fracture treatment–it goes on and on…is not dependent on pharmaceuticals.

I personally agree the major barrier would be getting anyone to believe you. Course you’d probably crump immediately from some god-awful disease you have not been vaccinated for and for which you have no treatment.

No knock to docs intended, doc, but I maintain that sanitation and water works workers are at least as vital to public health and maybe more so.

As to the importance of basic cleanliness, a Hungarian doctor, Ignaz Semmelweiss reduced the incidence of what was then called childbed fever, from the 30% rate in most hospitals to under 1% in his hospital. He did it by the simple procedure of forcing the examining physicians to wash their hads in a solution of water and carbolic acid between visits to each patient.

It’s true that modern sanitation and water treatment plays a very significant role in controlling the spread of disease-carrying organisms, but this is the result massive public works projects and modern, large scale, civic-funded programs. A physician dropped into the Dark Ages of Europe just isn’t going to have the wherewithal to effect public works on this scale (even though they had been done centuries before in China, Rome, and Constantinople). You might as well expect our time-traveling physician to put a stop to the spread of bubonic plague by isolating the rat population; he may well know what the vector of transmission is, but he’d have a very limited ability to do anything about it. A savvy doctor might be able to develop sulfa drugs or crude fungal antibiotics, and perhaps very limited innoculation, provided you could get people to accept the notion of rubbing cowpox pus into an open sore. Without modern laboratory apparatus, though, it would be largely guesswork and experimentation as to what he was getting from cultures.

Personal sanitation–particularly on the part of a physician going from one patient to another–would be a definite reduction in the transmission of disease, but only on a small scale. And the physician’s ability to treat major trauma, chronic illnesses, and malignancies without modern antibiotics, anesthesia, and other pharmaceuticals will be essentially limited to first aid. As Qadgop the Mercotan notes, most of the common ailments that physicians treat today, such as childhood diabetes, just aren’t going to exist, as they’re too debiliitating to allow the patient to survive into adulthood. Recommending good nutrition and preventative medicine are limited by available food sources, and few people are going to live long enough that the chronic illnesses of modern old age, like heart disease, are going to be the root cause of death.

I’d guess the major impact a physician would have in that circumstance is in childbirth and treatment of the illnesses and syndromes of early childhood. There are many serious complications in childbirth which can be lethal to both child and mother but are readily reduced by an experienced doctor, even equipped only with rudimentary tools. With careful precautions, sterile operating procedures, and at least some crude antibiotics, its possible that even Ceasarian sections might be conducted successfully. The illnesses of childhood, particularly chronic but not necessarily fatal illnesses like asthma or moderate diabetes, can also be treated via prevention or diet modification.

A good primer on this topic is the Hesperian Foundation book, Where There Is No Doctor, which is intended as a reference for health care workers in Third World countries. I’m not recommending it as any kind of replacement for modern health care and a qualified physician, but it does give an indication of what treatment is feasible outside of the context of modern pharmaceutical medicine.

Stranger

True- QtM mentioned willow bark (aspirin), foxglove (this is digitalis, right?) and opium (good for so much of what ails us :wink: )- I’m sure there must be others that might have been growing wild. Coca for a local anesthetic, ephedra or ma huang as an antihistamine, cinchona against malaria, cannabis, valerian…

The Arabs would listen to him, and write down.

Oh yeah, forgot the most obvious thing, that medievel society would have plenty of… Maggots and Leeches! Modern medicine is doing great things with these two critters and proper raising and usage of them could easily be achieved even in the olden days.

True, and more is the pity when you think about the state of Islam today.

But the OP did use 13th century England as an example, and I went with that.

If Qadgop suddenly appeared in 13th Century England, I think he’s canny enough to recognize a “maybe I better shut up before I’m killed as a witch (warlock? whatever)” moment, until he could talk to and maybe convince the right people to at least listen to him.

If he was given a chance to demonstrate his competency, and if he was given a case where he had some reasonable chance at success with limited tools and medicines, he’d be in like Flint.

Otherwise…

I’d guess he’d be considered, at best, a harmless loon; at worst, a dangerous radical who must be silenced. And in those days, he would be silenced by angry men with sharp and pointy instruments making lots of choppy-stabby motions.

(bolding mine)

Would a female physician even be able to get people to listen to her in the first place? Did female physicians (as opposed to midwifes and local wise women) even exist in Europe during the Middle Ages?

How do you cure cholera? Couldn’t you get an amazing survival rate just by forcing some salt water into the victims?

Of course, again, making sure feces don’t contaminate drinking water would be a huge step there…

He would also know the hazards of eating from wooden plates that hadn’t been properly washed, trenchmouth. And the dangers of heavy metal poisoning from the lead in pewter drinking mugs and dishes. Citrus for sailors to prevent scurvey.

Not eating off of lead plates would probably curb a lot of deaths.