What Would Be the Result: "cocktail of lye and sulfuric acid"?

Factual Questions
1

I am reading a new book: Chrysalis: A Thriller By Lincoln Child with the following excerpt: “The real Reginald Bryant was at this moment stuffed inside a metal drum, his molecular bonds loosening in a cocktail of lye and sulfuric acid.”

Any thoughts? [I am feeling quite doubtful about this–but it has been a long time since high school chemistry.]

2

Sodium hydroxide (lye) is an extremely caustic base. Sulfuric acid is an extremely caustic acid. One or the other would probably dissolve a body, at least well enough for a schlocky novel.

But I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t want to mix them - wouldn’t they neutralize one another? You’d want one or the other for your nefarious deeds.

3

I would expect a rather violent reaction when mixing lye with sulfuric acid. I wouldn’t expect a common metal drum to contain the contents for long.

4

OMG, I’ve never forgotten when I was taking organic chemistry, and a manager at the restaurant where I was working told someone that he was pouring acid down a floor drain. The can was plainly labeled “SODIUM HYDROXIDE” and I came very close to telling him that he was not using acid, but decided not to say anything.

I wouldn’t want to be in the vicinity of that barrel, that’s for sure.

5

All rather depends of the sequence of events.
If Reginald Bryant was put into a metal drum which contained a cocktail of lye and sulfuric acid then he’d in reality be in a drum of diluted and neutralised lye or sulfuric acid depending on which had the greater molality.

If Reginald Bryant was put into a metal drum and then lye and sulfuric acid were separately added then he’d be getting burned by both until one of them became neutralised.

If Reginald Bryant was put into a metal drum and a cocktail of lye and sulfuric acid of equal molality was mixed before adding to the drum then he’d be drowned and preserved in a drum of brine.

6

Yep.

Bad science there.

7

My pharmacist dad drilled the reaction into my head:

“Acid plus base produces salt plus water.”

Different types of salts, of course, depending on the acid and the base.

8

Well I learned from Breaking Bad that the proper way to dissolve a body is to use sulfuric acid and a polypropylene drum as the acid would dissolve a metal drum.

And wear your saftey equipment for Christ sake!

9

BB used hydrofluoric acid, at least initially.

Sodium hydroxide and sulfuric acid react to form sodium sulfate and water. The reaction is highly exothermic, so I wouldn’t want to be nearby. Don’t try this at home, kids.

10

Really? I’d have thought the “acid bath murders” of my childhood were in the pre-plastic era.

11

There are ways you can treat a metal container to make it suitable for storing strong acid. Wax is probably the lowest-tech. But if you just buy a metal container that wasn’t designed for strong acids, and fill it with strong acid, it’ll eat through it.

12

I’d think that mixing a strong acid and a strong base (lye) would be self-defeating, apart from whatever negative consequences might ensue from the initial chemical reaction.

Lye alone appears to be more effective than a strong acid for dissolving a body, but it needs to be heated to 300F or so.*

*here’s hoping that no investigative agency has an excuse to delve into my recent Internet searches.

13

Weren’t baths usually enamelled?

14

Sulfuric acid isn’t awful to porcelain . Probably the biggest risk is mixing it with a little water, which is a highly exothermic reaction and can easily crack a tub. As noted, Breaking Bad uses hydrofluoric acid, which is much worse for glass, porcelain, and ceramics.

I’m sure there have been plenty of “acid bath” murders, but people who know what they’re doing use a strong base like sodium hydroxide. Media sometimes report this as “acid” under the belief that anything that dissolves something must be an acid.

15

John Haigh used steel 40 gallon drums, I believe* - they must have been internally lacquered.

*Per the photo on this page: Haigh, the acid bath serial murderer | Roger (Jan) Meecham
(photo shows nothing grisly)

16

I couldn’t help also being reminded of this earworm too

17

Carbon steel passivates itself with high concentration acids like Sulfuric or Nitric acid. “Stronger” acids are less corrosive to carbon steel than “weaker” acids.

18

Yes - this makes perfect sense but not in the way the author intended.

I have made design improvements / efficiency assessments of Chlor-Alkali ( where lye is made) and Sulfuric Acid Plants; and I understand the nature of Lye and Sulfuric Acid enough to say the following :

  1. Pure Lye (Dry Sodium Hydroxide) or is available to the common consumer as pellets. Sulfuric acid sold as battery acid is about 30% concentrated. I did calcs, and the “dissolving” job done by 1 gallon of lye pellets is about the same as 7 gallons of sulfuric acid (30%).
  2. Sulfuric Acid dehydrates and burns. So adding Sulfuric Acid to a drum containing a body may result in extreme reaction with burning / fumes going all over the place. Fats in the body can vaporize and go all over the place.
  3. Lye turns the body into soap. Soap was traditionally made by dissolving leftover fats / oils in lye. But lye cannot dissolve bones / teeth.

So, someone who knows their chemistry, will dissolve a body first in lye - so that all the flesh and organs are dissolved. Next the vessel needs to be drained off and the bones / teeth / cartilage etc would next be dissolved in acid.

19

And then back into a fresh lye bath to dissolve the demineralizated tissue.

Seems like a lot of work, tbh.

20

Busted by MythBusters. Both Hydro Fluoric Acid and Mercury Fulminate uses in BB were busted by Mythbusters