What Would Gore Have Done? September 11 mini-rant (long).

If the following statements offend any of the people that actually like the grinning homunculus that we have as a leader (aka known as George W Bush), I guess that would just be a crying shame. I have to say that having this freak representing my nation has caused me to rethink my general good opinion of people. I mean, after all, leaving aside any election theft questions, the awful fact remains that a whole lot of fucking people voted for this man! Crap, the fact that he won the primary is astonishing!

In any event, I was surfing around and found this site. Among the interesting things that I read was this:

So I have to ask; why did people vote for this man? Did they really have no idea how earth-shatteringly stupid he is? Did they not realize that the people that he was going to surround himself with were likely to be evil, corrupt and set our international opinion back decades? Do people want to be represented on the world stage this slimy piece of worm ridden daddy’s coattail riding waste of skin?

Using Sept. 11 to question “why did people vote for this man” ? That’s just too fucked for words, but I’ll give it a shot, anyway:

People who voted for Bush in November of 2000 weren’t thinking “gee if we elect this guy, how will he respond to that multiple plane hijacking/terrorist attack which we all know is coming 10 months from now?”

Dude, you’re seriously fucked up. But you may have a point. People will really regret voting for Bush when he fumbles the Frankfurt Summit, leading to nuclear confict in Asia on July 10, 2003.

Don’t ask me how I know the exact date; it’s classified.

P.S. If I was American, I’d have voted for Gore, mainly because his views on the environment and technology mesh with my own.

Actually, as one who generally thinks very little of Dubya, I only found one point in there (that being the remark on Ashcroft) that is not either open to interpretation or based on conflicting views of what actually happened. (And even the Ashcroft comment probably overstates the actual nature of Ashcroft’s deeds or failures.)

This is the Pit, of course, and I really have no love (and little respect) for the pres, but that list is hardly a clear-cut case of incompetence or stupidity for Bush and his people.

The Rumsfeld comment is inaccurate.
The first Condy Rice comment is speculation.
The airline comment is double speculation–both as to what Gore would have done and whether it would have made a difference (even IF it could have been implemented by September).
The vacation crack is irrelevant (and probably inaccurate–most presidents take off the same month that Congress is gone).
The Saudi connection had no bearing on bin Laden (whom the Saudis hate) and the Caspian Sea scenario has been pretty well discredited.
The results of the August 9 CIA memo are pure speculation–as is the notion that trying to act on that vague information would have effectively stopped the attacks.
There is no evidence that the Bush people have been lying about who knew what: there is ample room for confusion regarding what was known to be important.

This is good campaign fodder (meaning it can rile people up without having to be accurate), but it isn’t sufficiently accurate to be used to raise out collective blood pressure at this time.

Can’t guess at rewriting history;

sorry;

not allowed. Invalid argument.

Pluses to Gore:

No ashcroft. ashcroft scares me, seriously. There are very few things in this world which downright scare the bezeezus out of me, ashcroft is one of them. (I refuse to capitalize his name, capitalization is a sign of respect, of which I have none for him.)

Minuses:

Pro-censorship VP instead.

VP has less power then Attorney General, but still. . . . that was a scary old fart. Err, what was his name again? I can NEVER remember the name of VPs, heh. Or in this case a potential VP.

Liberal’s shouldn’t be conservatives and even conservatives shouldn’t be such dickheads. . . .

Oh, and I belong to a firmly democratic state, have been for some time now, yaah! :slight_smile:

We elected Maria Cantwell, one of the few darn honest politicians left.

Actually I think she might be the last one. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

(not true, there is a Democrat from one other state who is doing The Right Thing on a regular basis in maintaining citizen’s rights, and even a republican from some place or another if I recall correctly. . . .)

OK, just a point or two of clarification before this gets out of hand.

[ul]
[li]The quote that I posted and the link are from an obviously biased source, had it not been so chances are that this thread may have wound up in Great Debates.[/li][li]How this is “using September 11 to question why people voted for this man” is not 100% clear to me. My sense is that this is an example of his inattentiveness, and poor decision making and, as such, worth talking about.[/li][/ul]

Hellfire, I know that we are all still hurting here. At least I am. That said, I am frightened by the way that we seem to be so quick to support this man. Seems like there is a lot of funky shit going on, and not enough questions being asked.

The interesting thing to me is the bit about not enough questions being asked. Which also goes into the whole question of media bias. The media basically let Reagan fuck them up the ass about Iran-Contra, never going that deep into investigating the whole mess, letting Lawrence Walsh do all of that and then when Walsh wrote his book Firewall, the press said, “Gee, that’s really boring and no one cares. NEXT.”

But Clinton gets his dick sucked and all you see 24/7 on the news is Clinton this/Clinton that.

Now, granted, when something like Sept. 11 happens, it is logical to rally around and show support for the President. But that does not mean following blindly whatever he says and not questioning his policies regarding terrorism. The exact opposite in fact.

One “problem” is that many of “Shrubs” staff are very old Washington insiders, like Rumsfeld and Cheney. This is Rumsfeld’s 2nd go around as Defense Secretary, so he knows ALL of the ins & outs.

Also, the admin was lucky that they had the whole economy in the toilet thing as well as Enron to draw attention away from what exactly they were doing for the War on Terror.

This is the most fucked up thing I have ever heard. Maybe not fucked up but definitely ignorant. Who in the hell thought that terrorists were gonna crash into the WTC and the Pentagon.

How many “hints” or “leads” do you think the CIA or FBI gets a day. I’m sure it numbers in the hundreds if not thousands.

Second, what in the hell could “Dubya” do? Was he supposed to bomb everyplane that came close to New York or DC. And what in the hell would have Gore done differently besides the appointments of different people.

Democrats are seriously pissing me off talking shit about Bush. He handled things I think better than anyone since his father, Hint hint. He didn’t let anyone push us around, he didn’t just talk crap. He showed the world what happens when you fuck with us.

What did Clinton do when the WTC was bombed in the early 90’s?

What did Clinton do when the USS Cole was attacked? He didn’t think with his biggest head that’s for damn sure.

All Bush did was look out for the best of our country. And the damn Democrats are talking shit about the way he handled it. Probably the greatest tragedy our country has ever had to endure (Pearl Harbor being a close second or even first). Bush said what he was gonna do and did it to the best of his abilities, NOBODY could have done better, and in the hands of Gore I believe things would have been worse. People need to respect what our government does for us and to at the very least give credit where credit is due. If not…GET THE FUCK OUT AND STAY OUT YOU COMMIE BASTARDS!!!

LOL- you had me right up 'til the end. Very nice subtle touches now that I reread it- “All Bush did was look out for the best of our country.”- is really nice- JDM

As comforting as it might be to fantasize about what might have happened had Gore won rather than Bush (whoops, had Gore become president), I gotta say that it’s mostly useless speculation.

We just can’t know. It ranks up there with “What if Hitler had had the Death Star?”

However, if you want to find out what Gore will do to balance security with civil rights, there’s an easy way to find out: Vote for him in 2004, and that goes for you fuckface Nadar supporters.

Oh, and Sinyster, may I remind you that dissent is not un-American, but suggesting that anyone who disagrees with you and the Fox news channel should be deported most certainly is un-American.

Yeah, if Gore had made HIS appointments, Bin Laden would surely have rethought his attack stratagy…give me fucking break.

I’m democrat. I do not like Bush. But there is nothing he could have done at the time to prevent this. And I approve of his response. Aschcroft is still a putz, though.

It’s pretty fucking easy to sit around and play monday morning quarterback.

That didn’t work out too well, now did it?

Hmmm… the thread title is “What Would Gore have done”, and we’re presented with a list of things Gore wouldn’t do. Not quite clear on this “fighting ignorance” thing, are we?

Are there cites for any of these claims? Any “lie” by administration? Any explanation for how these people know that Gore, who has extensive ties with foreign oil companies, would not be interested in a Caspian oil pipeline?

**Ahem! :eek: **

As a dyed-in-the-wool Dubya-drubber, I will say that there’s one big advantage to having George in the White House instead of Al – the Congressional Republicans don’t dare to play obstructionist politics against the White House’s antiterrorism proposals.

Can you just imagine the ruckus we’d be getting from the GOP if President Gore wanted to bomb Afghanistan? Or if it was Gore proposing the new “Homeland Defense” Cabinet office and the ensuing growth in government? (Of course, Al would have floated that balloon six months earlier, but that’s a different matter). And I’m sure we would have gotten more mind-boggling press spin along the lines of “We can support our troops without supporting the President.” :rolleyes:

I’m not saying watching John Ashcroft shred the Constitution is worth all this, but in an administration full of dark clouds, watching the Repubs in Congress holding themselves back from their usual uncooperative efforts is a silver lining of sorts.

**

Dumbass :wally

And by the way:

CITE???

Gore’s oil ties:

http://www.public-i.org/story_01_011100.htm

http://www.moles.org/ProjectUnderground/drillbits/5_08/2.html

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/30/gore.html

http://www.ran.org/ran_campaigns/beyond_oil/oxy/nyt_goread.pdf

http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/08/14/occidental/

http://past.thenation.com/cgi-bin/framizer.cgi?url=http://past.thenation.com/issue/000522/0522silverstein.shtml

Some of those are pretty liberal sources. Tough to watch your sacred cows fall, ain’t it?
BTW: What Would President Tom Daschle Do?

Without getting into the rest of it (and I hate Dubya as much as the next person) I just have to comment on this:
aka known as George W Bush

… also known as known as George W Bush?

You know, in an alternate universe, somebody is ripping december a knew one right about now for posting:
“**What Would Bush Have Done? September 11 mini-rant (long). **”
dead0man

Yeah, because Republicans would have completely ignored three thousand dead people and two smoldering piles of rubble just so they could attack a Democrat.

**

What in the nine worlds gives you the slightest idea that Al Gore would have wanted to create a brand-new Cabinet department with no appreciable use (at the time) two months into his presidency? Were the words “homeland” and “defense” ever uttered in the same sentence by Al Gore before September 11th?

Or am I merely blind to the fact that Al Gore is psychic and would have seen September 11th coming? And then he would have fought the terrorists hand-to-hand and kicked their asses! I think you’re thinking of President Miss Cleo or President Harrison Ford.

Proposals to elevate “Homeland Defense” to a cabinet position have been seriously floated only recently. June 2002 - six months = December 2001. Whether or not rjung’s assertion that Al Gore would have proposed a new cabinet position at that time is, of course, debatable, but he’d have had no need for psychic powers at that time.

<Sniff> Oh my sacred cows are falling! The Wound! The Wound!

Now pardon me, but I gotta go pack to move off to Texas, buy a gun, become a Fundie and give up my vegetarian commie pinko fag ways.

I have truly seen the light! Dubya is NOT an international embarrassment. Nor is he an over promoted sack of crap! The scales have fallen from my eyes.

Anyway, I am off to coat my car in flag decals and then wipe my ass with the Bill of Rights.

On a less sarcastic note, you may have noticed that I have stated earlier that what I posted was biased. I think that it makes for interesting speculation.

Now then, please fight my ignorance (those of you that seem to support Bush). Please explain how this is possible. Keep in mind that I am not saying that Gore would have not been (for lack of a better word and to keep the analogy consistent) evil, but I am stating that he would have been dramatically the lesser evil. Is it because Bush has labeled himself a Republican and (because the ideology of that political party is closer to yours) you feel compelled to support him until something better comes along? Do you consider Bush the lesser evil, and if so why?