What would happen if Palestinians were declared to be Israeli citizens?

Sure. The loving couple will kill each other inside of a month, and that’ll solve all their neighbors’ problems! :wink:

How would that work? If the Palestinians are now part of “the nation”? Perhaps the richer (formerly Israeli) parts of the combined state would be taxed to subsidize economic development in the former OTs – but would that be such a bad thing?

Not from your POV. But from the POV of those who hate and recoil from justice, it is a worst case.

That’s hardly the worst case scenario. In fact, should a single state happen, that would probably be the best-case scenario, and I, for one, would be really pleasantly suprised. The worst case scenario is that the Palestinians do what they’ve said they’re planning on doing and kill off the Jews.

I’m mostly okay with this. As long as the tribal racist psycho elements are only killing other tribal racist psychos, let 'em.

Of course, we’ll have to offer asylum to the non-psycho elements of both populations.

Me too.

That is an extraordinary claim. Do you have extraordinary evidence to substantiate it?

From the Hamas Covenant:
http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/hamas.htm

From the PLO Charter of 1968:

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/plocha~1.htm

None of the quoted material states “kill off the Jews.” The nearest thing from Hamas is:

That is a Koranic verse that is included to comfort Hamas that it will succeed in its armed struggle against Israel. Even given a sinister interpretation, that interpretation nonetheless fails to rise to the level of extraordinary evidence for the claim.

To reiterate, the first interpretation is better. This conclusion is compelled by other material in the Covenant:

This is not compatible with the view that the Covenant envisages killing all the Jews. Moreover, the status of the Covenant is questionable. There is nothing to suggest it has any particular status or weight, or indeed that it is a document endorsed by Hamas.

None of the other material suggests “kill off the Jews.” Consequently, there is no evidence commensurate with the extraordinary claim that has been made.

There is a second basis for the claim requiring extraordinary evidence. As a cursory research of ‘Hamas’ and the ‘PlO’ shows, there is a large industry of demonizing the Palestinian people. Given the effort to distort the facts, the necessity for extraordinary evidence is apparent.

Nor does Hamas equal “the Palestinians,” for the matter of that.

That would be this part:

Regards,
Shodan

“Armed revolution” != genocide.

No, but if (and this is all taken from the PLO charter)

and

and

and if further:

Article 6: The Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion [i.e. before the “First Aliyah”, the first wave of Zionist settlement in Palestine] will be considered Palestinians.
[/quote]

then that means that the Jews who came to Palestine/Israel during the first aliyah and afterwards, and their descendents, are not considered Palestinian by the PLO, and don’t have “the right to determine their destiny in accordance with their wishes and entirely of their own accord and will” within the future Palestinian state, which would, pursuant to Article 2, consist of the entirety of Mandate Palestine.

What would happen if America declared Mexicans to be American citizens?

What would happen if Ethiopia declared Eritreans to be Ethiopian citizens?

What would happen if Indonesia declared East Timorese to be Indonesian citizens?

What would happen if France declared Algerians to be French citizens?

What would happen if Turkey declared Greeks to be Turkish citizens?

What would happen if Russia declared Ukrainians to be Russian citizens?

What would happen if India declared Pakistanis to be Indian citizens?

What would happen if Serbia declared Bosnians to be Serbian citizens?

What would happen if Great Britain declared Irish to be British citizens?

What would happen if Germany declared Austrians to be German citizens?

What would happen if…

Your point being?

Mexicans don’t want Mexico to be annexed by the USA. Americans don’t want Mexico to be annexed by the USA. So proposing that America should annex Mexico is kind of foolish.

Palestinians don’t want the West Bank and Gaza to be annexed by Israel. Israel doesn’t want the West Bank and Gaza to be annexed by Israel (yes I know some actually do, but a small minority, and those that do advocate either ethnic cleansing or second class citizenship for Palestinians). So proposing that Israel should annex Palestine is kind of foolish.

It won’t stop the conflict, it just redefines it, like calling a tail a leg. Israel can’t just ignore the fact that a majority of its putative citizens would be violently opposed to political union. And by violently opposed, I mean, willing to use violence. You think just because Israel is democratic that would stop the violence? Post-colonial India was democratic, yet Pakistan declared that they were not part of India and didn’t want Indian citizenship, and fought a war of independence against democratic India, all to set themselves up as an independent non-democratic state. So much for democracy curing all ills.

The Mexico analogy is useless, because Mexico is a recognized state, and its occupants are citizens of the Mexican state. Nor does the U.S. exercise effective sovereignty over Mexican territory. Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, on the other hand, are stateless, citizens of nothing, and Israel does exercise effective sovereignty. Even Gaza, which Israel supposedly evacuated, continues to be constrained by Israel’s wishes.

As to whether the Palestinians want to be annexed to Israel – well, how can you say, since they’ve never been asked? That’s the misfortune of not having any voting rights, no?

In summary:

No.

You’ve made it very clear in past discussions that you will reflexively take the pro-Palestinian side and the anti-Israeli side in all such discussions, and further, that you refuse to consider any evidence that paints the Palestinians or Palestinian groups in a less than positive light.

In fact, I have linked you to the charter documents of the two largest Palestinian political organizations, both of which seek the destruction of the State of Israel and the establishment of a Palestinian state wherein there is no place for the Jews.

If I needed to, I could also show you the anti-Semitism that flourishes both among the Palestinians and in the Arab world as a whole. I could show you that just recently Egyptian state television broadcast a drama based on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and that Jews are not, with certain very rare exceptions, given visas to enter the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

I could show you Palestinian schoolbooks that paint Jews in a negative light, include maps that do not name the the State of Israel or show Israeli cities established by the Jews, like Tel Aviv, or even mention that Jews lived in Jerusalem prior to the establishment of Israel or that the Temple in Jerusalem was a Jewish holy site.

I could also point out to you the numerous attacks against Israeli civilians, not only in the Occupied Territories, but in Israel proper, such attacks not respecting social status, political beliefs, sex, or even age.

All of these facts and more, I could use to show you that Israel, and Israeli Jews have good reason to doubt the willingness of many Palestinians to live at peace with them. But even if I did present this information, would you even consider the evidence?

They’re citizens of Jordan.

I don’t think so. I think Jordan washed its hands of them years ago, and renounced all claim to the territory.