They renounced claim to the territory in, but the people there are still citizens of Jordan. I’m referring to the West Bank here, I’m not sure about people in Gaza. Looking for a cite; my google results all seem to be about the large Palestinian population in Jordan proper.
Okay, I guess I was confused.
From Wikipedia.
Ah, clever. The ‘Defending Israel’ exception to the ‘personal attacks in Great Debates rule.’
Fortunately, I am aware the exception does not permit me to reply in kind. Instead I merely note the tactic.
If you think I’m acting contrary to the rules, please report me, and a moderator will no doubt warn me for my comments. But I don’t think noting that you’re pro-Palestinian is a personal attack, any more than noting that Liberal is Libertarian, or that RTFirefly dislikes the Bush administration or Diogenes the Cynic doesn’t take the bible literally. As such, I realize that you’re harder to convince than someone who is neutral on the subject
So I’m asking you honestly, what evidence would convince you?
Perceptions of me are irrelevant. While I do concede I exert a bewitching fascination to a percentage of the board, I am not the topic.
You have made an extraordinary claim; a plan to kill off an ethnicity. Indeed it is the most extraordinary claim that could be made, short of the supernatural.
It is also an accusation of the most grave crime and further, is common in the suite of propaganda used by such organisations as AIPAC. This is under discussion in the other thread.
In an attempt to liberate your mind from ignorance, a foul calumny and the influence of evil men, I ask; what extraordinary evidence founds the claim? Having none, you instead attempt to render myself as the discussion’s topic.
Alternately, if you are believe the material you have supplied so far is sufficient to persuade a rational person of your extraordinary claim, then leave it at that.
Hmm? Does AIPAC actually claim Hamas intends to kill all the Jews in Israel?
Fine. For one example, here’s an article from the Muslim-American Society from June 10, 2003, about an Israeli assassination attempt on Dr. Rantissi, who was at that time, a senior leader of Hamas. Dr. Rantissi survived that attempt and said, among other things:
http://www.masnet.org/news.asp?id=151
“By God we will not leave one Jew in Palestine.”
and
Not a single Jew in Palestine is safe from now on and we will continue our jihad until the end. We will maintain our jihad and resistance until we kick out every single criminal Zionist from our land,"
And going back again to Hamas’s charter:
and
Note that…not just Israel, Israel, Judaism and Jews. And this is the group, with such leaders, that the Palestinian people have just elected to lead the PA.
Captain Amazing, you keep reworking the same well-plowed ground. Rantissi does not equal the Palestinian people; Hamas does not equal the Palestinian people; the PA does not equal the Palestinian people. Nor, for the matter of that, does Israel equal the Jewish people.
If Hamas doesn’t represent the views of the Palestinians, who does? I mean, Hamas isn’t a fringe movement among the Palestinians. It just got elected by the Palestinians to lead the PA. So their views must have been popular enough to get them elected, right? If Hamas doesn’t represent the views of the Palestinian people, and the PA doesn’t represent the views of the Palestinian people, then who does?
Why, no one, of course. Who out there perfectly represents your views?
Obviously, nobody. But, between the Democrats and the Republicans, most of the views of most Americans are represented, which is one of the reasons that these two parties are so powerful. So, if most of the views of most of the Palestinians aren’t represented by the PLO or Hamas, how is it that those two groups manage to have so much power, and if the views of the average Palestinian really differ so much from the PLO or Hamas, how come a group hasn’t developed that represents their views?
The problem is that you’ve set the bar impossibly high for yourself by declaring “The worst case scenario is that the Palestinians do what they’ve said they’re planning on doing and kill off the Jews.” Again I’ll repeat that just because a subset of Palestinians has pledged to kick all the Jews out of the Holy Land, that does not equate to “the Palestinians are planning to kill off the Jews.”
If you’d kindly rephrase, we could get back to discussing the OP.
To clarify further, the quotes Captain Amazing has provided clearly contemplate expelling the living Jewish population, by force, incurring casulties and bringing an end to the state of Israel. e.g.
That claim is not extraordinary or new. The quotes provided demonstrate that when stating;
there was no evidence to substantiate that claim. There has been a singular failure to show otherwise.
AIPAC does not make that claim, contrary to my earlier statement. Even that organisation considers it extreme and unfounded. In its review and criticism of Hamas, AIPAC refrains from claiming Hamas has a plan for killing off the Jews. The question then is: How does this claim surface? Where does it originate?
Consider these wise words: