What would happen if we launched one?

The BBQ Pit
21

** Der Trihs ** said:

This is the fact, I have seen the effects of a few air to ground plane crashes, at the speeds we are talking, there isn’t much left bigger than, say, a computer keyboard. But you would be surprised what info can be gotten. Simple things like, the composition of the wire involved, the kind of metal used, batteries involved, variety of electronics left over. All give clues. Turn over a whole bunch of new variables to a team of geeks, have them add the variables to stuff they already know – and POW – they got something new!

**Zebra ** Now, that’s the kind of thing I was asking to begin with. Why NOT. You made a pretty good point. Sortta goes back to:
A) It would totally freak the whole world right out of existence. And that would be bad. (Omniscient).

**Magiver ** said:

BWAHahahaha! That was GOOD! I am sure this puts you on the “watch list” though, stay away from any “reporters” you may encounter in the near future.
** kunilou ** said:

Good point for “why not” – and that’s what I wanted opinions on – I am with YOU. Thanks, but this seems more like a situation where: The pip squeak at the other end of the block put a spit wad into a sling shot, you don’t call the chief of police either do DO YOU, um… unless that is, you know, you are the American Press Corps – trying to keep the populace flipped out - then all bets are off, God knows that spit wad could take an eye out, or cause a very bad infection!

**Zibra ** said:

Zibra ** WINS! ** Little Nemo ** thinks we have nothing to lose! Since they never attacked US! Forget about all the interests we have in the area, the military bases, the trading partners. Gee Wizz Wally, if they want to shoot off bottle rockets what do we have to worry about? Gosh oh golly… Nothing I can see. But I haven’t seen CNN today or picked up my NY times yet. USA today has some nice graphs on the front page though, maybe that will tell me what to think….
** Little Nemo said:

Sure, Sarajevo is still pretty messed up, I don’t see Yugoslavia sending zillions to clean up the mess. The USSR dogged Afghanistan for years, with out any demonstration of remorse, but “Russa” could give a shit. When Iraq overran Kuwait, you think they had any designs on “rebuilding”, NO – the soldiers just wanted to loot the place three ways from Sunday and let the Boss man have his oil. Then think about all the civil wars going on in Africa right now, you think when the thugs over run a target, they have an eye toward “making it a better place” – hell no. So why should we? That’s what I’m talking about. GOT IT? When the USA takes a place down, it has a history of going back and fixing things. What would happen if we didn’t? What would happen if the world knew “we could squish you like a bug – and there would be no hope for you afterward”. We don’t work like that, (thank god), but what if we did? You bet your ass the “world community”, especially the minor members, would think more than twice before they insulted us. There are some nice examples of this in the Middle East right now. The folks there don’t give a rats ass what any one thinks, the minute they get a challenge, they throw everything they have at it, world opinion be dammed. WE used to be like that, how do you think we got to where we are today? – Start with the British and move forward, we started losing our teeth around the loss of the Korean War. You think Teddy Roosevelt would have taken any shit from Hugo Chávez - No way! Bu then Roosevelt didn’t have an anti-USA press syndicate up his ass at every second, trying to make his country look bad. Roosevelt would have just sent him a message to “shut the hell up” – and if that didn’t work – in come the gunboats.

You know, where EXACTLY did I say they launched one at us? Go over it again please, your attempt at debate is giving me a headache, this is IMHO, not GD. I was making light of the TOTAL hype played up by the press over nothing more than a hot head, blasting off a few rockets that don’t even work. :::golf clap:::. Then with the aid of the USA press corps,( who OBVIOUSLY have an agenda, which I HATE), we as a nation, should pull our collective skirt up and dance on a chair, like June Cleaver when she sees a mouse scurry across the kitchen floor! So I say “Screw that”, They wanna see how the “big boys play” give an empty demonstration of what COULD be his reality. It worked with Quadafi. Ever since we wasted his house, (oops a relative was in there and died), he has just been peaches and cream. Did we go in there and rebuild his house? Heh. Hell no we didn’t.

None whatsoever. I can, however, be totally disillusioned with the way OUR media would portray my country as being a toothless giant, giving air time to tin pan dictators, and whipping up a frenzy over things that mean nothing, trying to convince you and me that we are doomed, and that we are threatened, and that if “we Americans” really were with the “program” we wouldn’t have worry so much. I state; I think there is a crew of folks IN THE MEDIA who want to see the USA brought down. I also think your average American is VERY ill informed, and I think the ones who feed us information every day KNOW this. This whole BS story about theses lil’ bottle rockets going off over the sea of Japan is just an example.

See above, is that clear enough? Gosh, I wish I were as smart as you, I think you may have missed the whole iteration on IRONY back in Jr. High though.

22

That the US has a large stockpile of ICBMs capable of reaching anywhere in the world isn’t exactly a secret, I’m sure the NK leadership is well aware of the fact already, and I imagine it’s probably one of the reasons behind their missile program.

Certainly the existance of US ICBMs isn’t so far having any deterrent effect on NK or Iran.

23

No one doubts the U.S. can hit NK with an ICBM, so what does sending an empty one prove?

24

The US doesn’t help in rebuilding for purely moralistic reasons.

After WWII there was a real, and probably justified concern that some European nations would go down the communist Russia route, Italy, Austria, West Germany, and who knows what the possible knock on effect might be.

The UK had elected a socialist government, and it was clear that the longer adverse conditions continued in Europe, the more likely that extremism would spread.

I was very much in the view of the strategic planners in the US that Europe had to be assisted as much as possible to prevent this.

The US has had plenty of opportunities to help out in situations is created, and hasn’t, think of central America for starters, and Haiti is not going all that well either.

Self interest and moral responsibility are not mutually exclusive, but don’t somehow get the impression that the US provides aid because it is run by saints.

25

The thing is, Janx, we generally try to let sane people run the country. It’s not as entertaining but it usually gets better results.

Now North Korea has launched a missile. Pretty much every other country in the world thinks that’s a bad thing. So there’s an organized effort to force North Korea through a series of diplomatic and economic sanctions to stop acting like a crazy fool (are you aware of the international condemnation?). We’ll call this Plan A.

But we’ve also got Plan B. If North Korea acts like a crazy fool, the United States will act like a fool that’s a hundred times crazier. They launch a missile into the ocean, we’ll drop on in the middle of their country - that’s the way we fight crime Chicago style!

Now I want you to take a few deep breaths and stop and think for a second. If North Korea is facing all kinds of diplomatic and economic sanctions for launching a missile into the ocean, what would be the result if the United States launched a missile into the middle of North Korea?

1 - North Korea goes from being an international pariah to being the poor victim of an unprovoked attack.
2 - The United States goes from being the country that’s generally known as being okay (give or take a few Presidential administrations) to being the new pariah nation of the world.
3 - Every other country on Earth joins together to impose economic sanctions against the United States. They cut off our oil, our strategic metals, our electronic technology, etc until we agree to their terms.
4 - China steps in to protect North Korea and all the other nations that feel threatened by our insane new policy. They tell the United States that if we launch another missile, they’ll launch their missiles back at us.
5 - With us acting all crazy and China acting like a grown-up, our allies in Europe and Asia stop answering our phone calls.

Does any of this sound like a good idea? Personally, I prefer Plan A.

A few more things. I appreciate you clearing up what you meant by ruined regions. I guess I was assuming regions were something on the scale of continents, not individual countries, but otherwise you’re right. The United States does have a much better record than other countries in helping countries that have been devastated by war, even when some of those countries were the cause of the war. But as you pointed out, this long-standing policy is to our credit and is one of the reasons we enjoy such a high reputation internationally. Why should we abandon it?

I still don’t get your obsession with the media. Could you link to some of the articles you seem to have read that are so anti-American or are arguing America should not defend itself?

To continue your analogy, what you’re suggesting is the proper way to deal with the pip squeak with a spit wad is to take your shotgun and fire a couple of rounds through his windows so he’ll knock it off. It’ll probably work, but afterwards, who do you think the neighbours are going to be worried about - the kid with the sling shot or the guy with the shotgun?

On a related note, what’s your opinion on India’s missile test yesterday? Are they on the list now?

And finally, I realize I’ve been pretty negative here and I’d like to end my post on a positive note, so:

On this, we’re in full agreement. I also wish you were as smart as me.

That’s how you do irony.

26

So invading Iraq makes the US ‘look like a toothless scarecrow’? :confused:

So you don’t think Guantanamo Bay and Abu Graib have done enough for the reputation of the US? :confused:

Yes indeed. :rolleyes:

‘Large swathes of the country are under the control of warlords where people live under the daily threat of violence, said Christian Aid (2003)’.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3139455.stm

'Drug enforcement officials say Afghanistan is now supplying 86 percent of the world’s heroin products. Much of the economic growth in the country is being fueled by money from Afghan traffickers and producers, who are earning an estimated $2.8 billion this year (2004). ’

‘Around 3,200 British troops are already in Afghanistan spearheading a major expansion of NATO peacekeepers into volatile areas in the south which have seen some of the worst fighting since U.S.-backed forces toppled the Taliban in 2001.’

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/10072006/325/browne-announce-troops-afghanistan.html

27

I agree with Little Nemo. Despite all the media attention given to anti-US protests in Europe, recent German and French elections have indicated a conservative undercurrent. North Korea poses no direct threat to the US. We have the potential to knock out a significant percentage of a first strike and there simply wouldn’t be a 2nd strike. We also don’t have a beef with the general population of North Korea (who are the relatives of the South Koreans we are protecting). Any physical confrontation with N-Korea will end up badly for the US on the front pages.

The way I see it we have 2 horses this race (South Korea and Japan). Since we have committed to protecting both countries it wouldn’t be unreasonable to ask Japan for troop support in NK. Since they just withdrew all their troops from Iraq it would be a timely investment in their own security to put them on the NK border. It would be a great kick-off to a UN sponsored condemnation, which is what the UN does best (unified lip-service).

Kim Jong Mentally IL has spent the past and present wealth of NK on a weapons program designed to repel outside threats. While doing so he has starved his own people into an inevitable civil unrest. Let nature take its course.

28

In ‘The Hunt for Red October’ Tom Clancy drummed up a great scenario where the bulk of the Soviet fleet was closing in on the East Coast of the US, searching for the Red October, which obviously would have been a cause for concern late in the Cold War. So the US has a bunch of air force types fly a mission where they ultimately sneak in on the Soviet flagship and drop a bunch of flares around it, sending the message ‘if we had wanted to, y’all would be dead right now.’ It was a pretty cool part of the book (unfortunately, omitted from the movie).

As for the OP…the likely response would be mild condemnation from the other involved parties - except Japan, who apparently would want to know why the hell the thing wasn’t loaded w its intended cargo, and the people of North Korea, who could probably stand to have a few ICBM’s filled w fuel oil, food, medical supplies, et al, sent their way.

29

In an ideal world, this would work. But realistically, no way. Korea and Japan have a “history” - the Japanese military occupation of Korea was very brutal. Even though both sides now have different governments and can work together, there’s no way the Korean people would accept Japanese troops in their country.

30

DOH! what was I thinking? I even have a book on it somewhere. While doing research for an article (on a different subject) I read every local newspaper for the year 1903. It was interesting to read about the Russian/Japanese war over “Corea” as it happened. I also have some stereoviews of it.

Major senior moment on my part.

31

I do like the idea of letting them know that it’s going to be a learning experence for both of us, you perfect how to launch a missle, we perfect how to shoot it down. In the end they get a missle that is useless, and we get a kick ass missle defense system.

32

Well, it’s been an interesting thread, really all I asked was “why would this be a bad idea”. I got some pretty good examples, I didn’t count on being asked, “why are you such an idiot”, but that was fun too. The Red October reference was right in there, and really goes back to the beginning of the thread, where we might drop paint on the NK Capitol. But really folks, I can’t be SOOOOoooo dense as to NOT see that this really is nothing to worry about, my entire POINT was, (and the actual spirit of my post), was why is the press making such a big deal out of it? I mean if it really is the end of the world, why don’t we do the same thing? That’s all. That was it. Screen baiting Little Nemo was fun, but you have to admit he had some pretty good points, like these especially:

Yeah, right, and who would they be then?

Yeah, that worked pretty well with Iraq didn’t it?

What the hell are you talking about? we have all that stuff right here, we don’t need the rest of the world to survive, you talk as if we live on a dead rock that has no resources of its own, that’s silly. If the environmentalists would let us dig for it, develop it, and consume it. Oh sorry, that would be politically incorrect too. That would be bad. But I tell you what, if the people needed it, the entire BS that causes us to think we depend on the rest of the world would go right out the window, and SCREW the Spotted Owl. If what you say is true, then china would quit supplying Wal-mart? We wouldn’t get Japanese cars! And people in the USA, and not India, would answer help lines! OH FUCK! The sky is falling! Oh WAIT; I already said that didn’t I. Being self-sufficient! Horrors! Oh my god what was I thinking! We really Neeeeeeeed the rest of the world to survive! Gosh, how could I be so stupid! (Our electronic technology? WTF, they use ours.)

What a crock of shit.

If the rest of the world cut us off we would just go back to how we lived when it wasn’t cheaper to farm out all the “dirty work” to the rest of the world, this country has ALL the resources it needs to be self sufficient, we have just allowed politics to change things in such a way that we cant actually, you know, USE any of it. You cut us off from the rest of the world and our economy would ROCK, gas would be VERY cheap, (only local market forces, no OPEC, no world competition), Fabric mills would re-open, car plants would re-open, mines would re-open, we would be fine, We wouldn’t see much growth after the beginning, but who cares, since we are not allowed to “trade” we would consume everything we made, the local market would take care of itself, and HAY! No trade deficit! Our military resources would only be spent on our preservation, no more foreign bases protecting trade interests, because we wouldn’t have any! We have all we need. Everyone has a job! Oh yeah, that would REALY SUCK. And you can also bet that sanctions against the USA would be seen a world wide JOKE because then we would cut off all our protectorates, and the BILLIONS we send them every year, you think they want that? No way man, there would be back door deals up the wazoo! Then all that would happen is that the USA would dominate the black market, that would really piss China off. The USA would still be a major trading partner, and we would be a LOT leaner.

Um, no, have you lived out side the USA lately? Traveled outside the USA? If you have did you wear an American flag on your pack, or lapel? Were you proud to say you were an American? Or were you thinking you better keep it down because you might get your ass kicked? All you have to do is open the paper to see what I mean, every third headline is about how the USA fucked up again, you have your head in the sand if you think world opinion isn’t VERY anti USA, and where do you suppose the world gets it’s information about the USA? From the USA is where they get it, and HOW do they get it? From the press that exists here, because ALL the major news organizations ON THE PLANET are based in the USA, each country has its local news to be sure, but when it comes to world news, all that shit is picked up right off the wire.
I read stuff on CNN every day, then I look at the Brazilian news sites and I see the same stories, verbatim, just translated, bump over to the BBC and you see the same thing. And that goes for EVERY country. Check it out for yourself. If the ones who control the press didn’t have such a fucked up view of the USA, and an obvious agenda to bring it line with the “program” this wouldn’t be a problem.

I never suggested that, I only asked why not. Who is pumping this whole “tempest in a tea cup” is the press. But you have a good point, the Machiavellian/conservative/Red Forman ideas I have support the idea, but the Liberal in me thinks that wouldn’t be so good… This assumes I actually give a hoot what the neighbors think. But you can bet that kid with the spit wad, (not sling shot, a sling shot can do some damage, a spit wad can not), and his whole family would avoid MY house for years to come. Good.

What? India tested a missile? Where? When? How come there aren’t reports about it every 5 minutes on the news channels! How come we aren’t getting up to the minute play by play action on what the presidents of the world community have to say about it? Why is there not OUTRAGE! How come CNN isn’t trying to convince me that the end of the world is near? And India HAS the bomb too! I guess the press decided that it wasn’t important, you know, India has major contracts with all our Tel-Co and Technology companies for call center services, and they got a BILLION people who all just LOVE to eat Mc Donald’s and drink Coca-Cola, and we got MAJOR chemical companies there, and gee, they are just such nice darn people. Sides’ they aren’t commies! How you gonna keep the sheep in line trying to scare them with a country like India? Get with the program man! Now it just DID suffer a major attack on its rail lines, but according to the American press “It’s the work of Islamic terrorists! – RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!” Not much mention of Indian separatists in the north has been given much airtime.

I’m working on it.

33

The economic policy you’re describing is autarchy - the idea that a political entity should have a self-sufficient economy. It sounds attractive on the surface but it breaks down in practice. The reality is that no country in the world, including the United States, is an economic closed system. The one that comes closest ironically is North Korea and we’ve seen how badly their economy is running.

If the United States tried to close its economic border, it would be a wreck. Some parts of our economy are based on foreign imports - oil being one of the main ones. We do have some domestic oil supply but it’s actually relatively small compared to foreign sources and more difficult to extract. So we’d be paying higher prices to use up our own oil rather than buying it at world market prices from countries that have surpluses. This is not an economically sound idea. Nor a political one - the more American oil we use up, the greater our future dependance becomes on foreign oil suppliers. The Alaskan oil fields are doing the most good for this country by staying right where they are.

And on the other side of the coin (a fairly literal metaphor in this case) our current economy is based on exports. What happens to our export economy if we shut down our import economy? If we export without importing, we are just shipping goods out of the country without getting any goods back in exchange. If we stop exports at the same time we stop imports, we’ll end up with many businesses (a lot of them in agriculture) that don’t have a market for their products. These businesses will collapse, causing further damage to our economy.

34

Yep, that’s what it is. You suggest that the USA couldn’t live with that? OK, I submit that it could do very well with it.

True, but NK is a pretty piss poor example, lets face it, they cover a space that is miniscule compared to the USA, they don’t have nearly the natural resources that a country of our geological size does, no wonder they starve – they have nothing to utilize for their own survival. We sure do. Hell - we pay farmers to make sure they DON’T grow food.

And EXACTLY why is that? Read up on it, the oil fields in the Alaskan north shore as well as all the other well known “strategic” reserves make the middle east look like a “pond” of oil compared to the oceans we sit on, we didn’t stop pumping oil off California because it was empty, we stopped pumping because it was ugly. The stuff is still there, and in Alaska too, but too bad about all the lil animals and stuff that may stop behaving the way they always have should we need to utilize the resources there… better bring it in from far far away where we don’t have to look at it. But I can assure you, if we were “cut off” you bet your ass we would be there, because NO politician wants to listen to his constituency bitch for fuel because he wanted to protect a frog, or a mouse, or a fox or whatever. And then lets not forget about all the millions of acres of ethanol that we ARE NOT USING. With a simple conversion of your car’s engine you can run on that stuff, and your car may already be able to do so, there are lots of cars that were made to do so to meet emission standards, they just didn’t tell you when you bought it, because while the manufacturers met the standards, the oil companies didn’t want you to buy less gasoline. I own a Toyota Carolla in Brazil, it runs on gas or booz, or both - I bought the same model here, why is there no booz to run it on? God knows we could produce it. So fuck OPEC, we pump our own oil, and there is PLENTY, and run on ethanol, OK, so you don’t go from zero to 60 in 8 seconds, it takes 12, but you still get to work. Whats the deal? Oh 3 bux a gallon Vs $1.25 … I see. You like to pay high prices for transportation. Keeps the program in order, doing your bit for the world economy and all…

Bull shit! Show me where you come up with this, and I will show you pure propaganda every time!

You didn’t read what I wrote, or you filtered it to the max. That argument was based on the FANTASY that the world would be receptive to sanctions against the USA which is a fucking joke for a bunch of reasons, some of which I stated. If we supplied only ourselves, and used other resources which we have, but do not use at our own STUPID expense, we would be fine for generations to come.

BS, you don’t even have any idea about how much oil we really have, further, why only oil? Is that the only fuel there is? And don’t say “currently”, if there was a real crisis tha shit would be on the common market in a second.

and how is that? Oh I know, because its better to abuse the resources of people who would like to see us dead than it is to be responsible for our own well being, I bet you collect welfare too. We have WAY more than they do, but why should we do any “dirty work” when the oil companies can make SO MUCH MORE making you believe the kind if thing you just said. You know the story of Jim Jones right? The Kool-Aid involved? Go ahead man, drink up.

Really? Than why the HUGE deficit? We import WAY more than we export, nobody wants our stuff as much as we want theirs, theirs is cheap, we can’t even afford our own stuff, how could any one else? That’s not right at all.

No, that’s wrong. You act as if there is no domestic market for domestic goods. If we were cut off from imports, our domestic output would fill the void rather nicely.

That’s just bull shit. In the fantasy you created businesses would grow, there would be no world competition there would only be local competition. 300 plus million people with access to every resource available the world over on one continent, with a solid social structure! Let the world “cut us off” the world would suffer far more than we would. The world would come crawling back in no time.

35

Are you serious? Saudi Arabia alone has ten times the oil Alaska does - and that’s using favorable estimates. Using a conservative defintion of the “Middle East” (just Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, and the UAR) and the ratio is closer to 30-1.

Here’s world oil reserves.

The United States has about 21,000,000,000 barrels of oil total. We consume about 7,000,000,000 barrels of oil each year. You do the math - if we stop importing oil we’re dry in three years. (The strategic reserve incidentally is supposed to hold only 1,000,000,000 barrels - less than a two month supply - and it’s currently below that level.)

Really, Janx, you should look some of this up before you put it out there.

36

Where did you get the “everybody hates the US” stuff? You asked Little Nemo earlier if he’d (or she, I don’t know LN’s Gender) ever travelled outside of the US…well, I have. As a matter of fact I’ve lived more than half of my career outside of the US and I’m currently living in Europe now.

There are people that have a problem with the US, particularly, the current administration…but there are a lot of people that don’t. I can’t say I feel any “hatred” from anyone here and I work in a multinational environment and community. I won’t lie and say “they all love us”…they don’t. But its not like the EU is waiting for an opportunity to stab us in the back.

37

So Lttle Nemo, you challenge me on several subjects, where is the response to them? The economy? Separatism? The reality of “world class sanctions against the USA”. Point for point I told you where you were full of hops. You had nothing to say about all that, yet you still “wish Janx were as smart as me too”. So where is your big time debate now? Come on! You talked up a bunch of stuff that I say was total BS, and after two pages of pointing out where you were WORONG you have yet to convince me that I am wrong. With one exception. The ONLY exception, and I am still not ready to concede, I told you any thing you give me regarding OIL would be PROPIGANDA. So what do you do? You quote the CIA world fact book. Off the net no less! Where do you suppose they get their numbers? Like what is there is ipso facto “reality”? I suggest you get off your duff and get yourself to a LIBRARY, (that’s a place where they have BOOKS). Start looking at geological surveys, specific to OIL, starting around 1910 or so. You may want to also research when certain areas were stopped being pumped, WHY they stopped pumping them, and what may still be there. But best off start with the oil rich areas in general and move forward through the history. But yes, yes I know, that would take a real effort on your part, and not much to gain over a stupid debate on a message board. Even if the spirit of the board concerns itself with FACTS. As far as I can see you don’t have any facts, AT ALL, and further you haven’t even made the feeblest attempt at addressing my answers to the other lame shit you brought up. In short, YOU SUCK at this. I am right. You are wrong. I know it sticks in your craw, so please, correct me, but if all you have are empty arguments, un-quantified opinions and a penchant for being nothing more than a simple blow-hard, I invite you to shut up, and sit down. All I asked was “why not” - then you come with all this cockey-ass-bull-shit that you can’t even support! Maybe you need a vacation?
** shizaru ** Said:

I am happy for you. I don’t know what you do or how long your career has lasted, or anything about the social strata you work in. Lets face it, if I were an executive for an important firm/company you can bet “everyone loves Americans”. I don’t have enough info man. Lets start. Do you take the bus with the common people there every day? Do you own property there? Do you have any children by the people that you “work with”? Are you fluent in their language? Just saying I work there, I been there, that’s not good enough for me, if you have LIVED there, dependant only upon yourself, then I would see iron in your words, otherwise I would see you as just another gringo I have to be nice to in order to get a pay check. So expand a little please, I would like to know. Really. But if you live exactly as the people in the country you are “working” in I submit you wouldn’t be so oblivious to the opinions that the other 80% have of us. And they get their ideas from the TV and the papers and the net – and ALL that shit comes from here. I don’t even want to go into the “Ugly American” syndrome because you couldn’t passably fit that mold.

38

Janx, I feel like I’m arguing with a dog. You explain everything to him in simple terms and all he does is bark back at you. At some point you realize it’s not the dog’s fault for being a dog, it’s your own fault for expecting more out of him than he’s got.

I’ve now reached that point in this thread. I’m sure you’re not going to understand what I’m saying now anymore than you’ve been able to follow anything I’ve said so far. So why should I waste my time?

39

Nice.

I’m a dog now? Ok with me, dogs are noble.

You, however, are a WEASEL. Who just weaseled his way out of putting up or shutting up.

Suit yourself.

Run along now, you just made my point, thanks for saving me the trouble.

40

Janx, I’m not an executive. I’m just a working guy like everyone else. My wife and I are the only americans in the building. I see, and interact with kids of the people around here. My wife speaks german, (though she is not german) and I can but only a very little. No one HAS to be nice to me to get a paycheck.