Obviously this is about Trump and his attempted coup. I’ll list some of the things that have gone on so far and some potential things that may happen on or after 1/6/2021. The list is of course not exhaustive. The question is do any of these things rise to the level where the people doing them could be charged with and likely to be convicted of sedition or treason? If not, what would it take for something to rise to that level in this type of situation (i.e. let’s ignore things like an American submarine captain defecting to Iran with a sub full of nukes and things of that sort)?
Here are some of the things we have so far, the list is by no means exhaustive, so please feel free to add to it for things I may have overlooked. There is so much it’s hard to keep track of it all.
Lawyers working for the president like L. Lin Wood saying that Pence should be arrested for treason and executed, and that Roberts is a pedophile who assassinated Scalia and should be arrested for that.
The planned challenging of the electoral votes by multiple Republican representatives and senators.
A few state officials, like Norm Shinkle, who abstained from certifying Michigan’s popular vote count.
The Trump electors from battleground states won by Biden who met and cast false electoral votes for Trump.
Recently pardoned former general Michael Flynn calling for Trump to declare martial law.
Trump calling the Georgia SOS to ask him to cheat and change the number of votes Trump received.
Here are some potential things that could happen on 1/6/2021 and after that.
Proud Boys / Neo-Nazis / fascists in general descending on Washington and attempting to physically prevent Democratic representatives and senators from going to the capitol for the electoral vote count.
Trump issuing orders calling for the arrest of Biden / Democratic congresspeople / SCOTUS justices / the Georgia SOS / anyone else he can think of whose arrest would help overturn the election.
The US Marshals / ATF / ICE / Border Patrol agents who he gives those orders to carry them out.
Trump declares martial law.
Members of the military carry out Trump’s order and begin enacting martial law.
Trump continues to act as president after noon on 1/20/2021.
Are any of these things likely to result in actual court cases on charges of sedition or treason?
It all depends on who is in charge of Congress. Anyone who claims to know where the line is drawn when it comes to looking the other way when it comes to Executive excesses is either
Wouldn’t such charges depend on federal prosecutors and the AG rather than congress? I could be missing something, but I’m not sure what.
In practical terms, what I’m asking is if any of the Biden federal prosecutors or the Biden AG are likely to file charges in any of the circumstances I mentioned, and if so if the judges in such a case will agree to hear it or throw the case out.
So, treason is out. Undermining normal democratic processes isn’t treason. Unless Trump wages an armed attack on the Capitol, he’s not committing treason. And no, colluding with Russia isn’t treason, either. I personally think the idea that Trump is a Russian asset is silly - he’s a intermittently useful idiot. But even if the worst speculations are true, Russia isn’t an enemy of the United States. We’re not at war with them, and there’s no formal declaration of hostilities or designation of them as an enemy.
The key element there is “force”. It’s not “sedition” to file frivolous lawsuits, rile up followers with reckless tweets, or try to intimidate state officials. Nothing Trump has done so far has actually involved the use of force. Again, if he stages an armed attack on the Capitol, you’ve got a case.
I can’t think of any circumstances where such an accusation would be considered seditious. On the other hand, Roberts has a slam-dunk defamation lawsuit if he ever feels inclined to pursue it.
One key factor that “immunizes” Trump and his close allies, and perhaps including farther-ranging allies, is the “political” factor. Any attempt to hold Trump et al accountable will set the right wing screeching about political witch hunts, jailing your political opponents, etc.
Absent that protective shield (for example, the submarine captain who defects to Russia with a payload of nukes), it becomes easy to see charges of sedition or worse.
But given the protective shield of “politics”, Trump and crew are likely to walk free forever.
What happens with state-level charges in, e.g., New York and maybe now Georgia, is a different story.
ETA: So, to conclude in direct response to the OP’s question: It would take an absence of “politics” to be charged with sedition or treason.
A defamatory statement that is communicated in a fixed medium and is considered to be so harmful on its face that the plaintiff need not prove special damages. Examples of libel per se are statements that: (i) relate to the person’s business or profession to the person’s detriment; (ii) falsely claim that the person committed a crime of moral turpitude; (iii) imputes unchastity on the person; or (iv) claim that the person suffers from a loathsome disease.
It would certainly qualify as a claim that he had committed a crime. Arguably, it could be deemed as an attack on his profession. Maybe even a claim of unchastity.
I actually quoted the relevant statute on sedition upthread. Setting aside politics, what specific actions or statements of Donald Trump’s do you think meet the legal definition of sedition?
Just to be clear, I personally don’t think he’s said or done anything that meets the definition, but I could be wrong.
Well, I actually meant to comment on the prospect that Trump & Friends are likely to be charged with any Federal crimes at all, not necessarily just sedition or treason. Tax evasion, election fraud, obstructing justice, many possibilities.
Yeah, I think he’s right on the edge after yesterday. I think there’s a genuine case there now, but he’s probably juuust on the right side of the incitement and conspiracy statutes. Which is pretty much his MO.
I’ve actually turned the corner on another impeachment. I’d support it, except the process takes so long. What I’m afraid of right now is that he preemptively pardons everyone involved in the insurrection at the Capitol. Impeaching and trying him for his role in that insurrection might just be extra motivation for him to do that and otherwise sow even more chaos before he’s actually removed.