Honestly, I used to care what other countries and peoples thought of us. Now, it all sounds like the same bullshit, and I frankly couldn’t care less.
I hear all this talk about how anti-Americanism is out of control, and we’re hated throughout the planet, that we’re imperialist dogs run by the Jews. Fair enough, everybody’s entitled to an opinion, stupid though it may be.
But as much as anti-Americanism has replaced soccer as the world’s pastime, it might behoove those of you who gleefully engage in this to know that many of us aren’t too thrilled with you either. Whether it’s idiot South Korean college kids calling for an end to the American “occupation” of their country, or Egyptian papers (operating with American taxpayer money in the form of foreign aid) printing all sorts of libel, or the surge of anti-Semitism now prevalent in Europe, or the fecklessness of some of our “allies,” many of us are sick of being the world’s punching bag, and really have started tuning you anti-Americans out.
I disagree with some of the posters above that “fixing” Iraq will not solve the problem. If, in five years, Iraq has a civil society and a level of prosperity on a par with Israel, people will still complain about how the U.S. went about it, but they will recognize that Iraq is much better off, and a lot of moderate antipathy towards the U.S. will go away. Especially if Bush is no longer president.
There is some truth to the “they are jealous” argument: that the U.S. is hated just because it’s the sole superpower. Before 9/11, I remember people arguing in the same breath that the U.S. shouldn’t intervene in other nation’s affairs, yet is at fault for not intervening to stop certain things. The rest of the world, collectively, has a fairly schizophrenic attitude to how involved the U.S. should be in global security, and a lot of it is explained by whether or not the U.S. is intervening on one’s favored side. But even in the absence of that, there’s a natural fear of the biggest kid in the room because you’re not sure whether he’s going to protect you or bully you.
So: do a good job rebuilding Iraq, preferably with the help of the U.N. Undertake more humanitarian missions and fewer pursuits of obvious ‘realpolitikal’ goals. Ditch Bush. Get a little more forceful arbitrating the Israel/Palestinian problem, in a more even-handed way. That might make a difference.
Ditch Bush = Lots of world relief and applauses
Excecute Bush = Even greater applause and goodwill of many many countries.
So yes people are jealous of the US… people do have false notions of American lifestyle (McD and obesity). Still the US was always seen as an example of sucess… how economic power could bring prosperity. How even thou the world power was unbalanced how the US military’s existence helped hold back wars and conflicts. A Benign superpower.
In the past saying out loud that the US were imperialists received chuckles or a “silly guy” response. Nowdays people nod their heads in agreement. T-Shirts with the US flag are seen as in bad taste…
One contrast was the Challenger Explosion. People followed the news here with a mix of sorrow and pity. It was seen as a major disaster. The space program thou american was seen as humanities endeavour in space. When the Columbia recently exploded... most either didn't care or outright said "serves them right". Quite a different reaction.
So back to the OP. It really depends on the next government. Another Bush period will basically finish any chances of the US getting back to previous "reputation". If Bush gets kicked out of office... a Democratic party government has better chances of course. If the next President makes a good job at selling a new way of doing things... maybe even gives some real power to the UN... and then kicks Sharon's butt around... then slowly people will be trustful again. In fact the relief of seeing Bush go will be a big initial boost. The faster they make ammends the greater the results I think... thou suspicions will remains for quite a while....
As for opposition to the war… it was well over a quarter. Not sure there was a chance for official opposition thou. Still its a fallacy to think few countries really opposed the Iraq Invasion… a pretty common mistake.
Speaking as a (friendly) foreigner, it might be a start if you could get Bush and subsequent presidents to stop referring to America as “greatest country in the world”. Bush does this over and over again, in a casual sort of way, as if it was an absolute unquestionable truth.
It doesn’t really take much imagination to see that people of other nationalities might find this a trifle irritating.
Secondly, some of the posts in this thread are quite revealing in the way they talk about “the rest of the world” as a vague, undifferentiated (and probably hostile) mass. There are as many shades of opinion about America as there are countries.
Perhaps there is a vicious circle of mutual hostility going on - you think we think you are fat arrogant imperialists, or whatever, and so you crank up the defiance and the isolationism.
In short, ditch Bush and start talking to the rest of us. We’re all different and not all of us are hostile.
This is just silly. Have you got any data to support the claim that this is what “the international community at large” (whatever the hell that is) thinks? Tourist visa requests to the US, immigration waiting lists, trade embargoes, or trade data showing effective boycotting of US goods… anything concrete?
Your OP is nothing more than the old “have you stopped beating your wife” line.
Bit of a cowardly post, Rashak. Other countries would applaud, huh? How about you?
Do you think the US should execute Bush? If not, then tell us what your reaction would be if it actually happened, and many countries in the world errupted in “greater applause”.
We could wipe out terrorism, cure cancer, HIV, feed the hungry, end poverty, give everybody in the world a Dodge Viper, start a colony on Alpha Centauri, win the World Cup five years in a row, and everybody else would still think we were a bunch of pricks.
I do think that there is a cycle of mutual hostility at work, at least from my own experience. I’ve come to expect most non-U.S. people to be angry at the U.S., and I’ve come to believe that nothing will change that. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, you know? Get rid of an abominable tyrant like Saddam, you get villified, if not for the way you went about it, then for not deposing all abominable tyrants in the world. I am quite honestly afraid to travel to anywhere outside of my borders right now; it may be paranoia, but I just get the idea that Americans aren’t too welcome anywhere right now.
I find myself responding defensively when people criticize Bush or our Foreign Policy even though I may not agree with either at all! What a strange phenomenon…
The rest of the world has either been condescending toward Americans (uncultured, gauche, fat, lazy, etc…) or hateful for most of the past few decades, especially since the end of the Cold War.
Now they’re pissed off because the current President has basically told a bunch of nations that they’re basically insignificant when it comes to what the US thinks (which is true), and they don’t like it.
I figure if they’re going to treat us like we’re retarded relatives one one hand, and as if we’re evil bastards on the other, then we should say “To hell with them” and do what we want, especially since none of them are in a position to do anything about it.
I am proud to say that I have seen American flags burned in protest under SEVEN Administrations!
Like I’ve said in another thread whose name and keywords totally escape me right now (the hamsters squeak ‘thanks!’ in little rodent voices), it’s not true that most Americans care nothing about what the rest of the world thinks, it’s the Boy Who Cried Wolf syndrome. Sometimes the rest of the world seems like one big blur of sullen people sitting around in cafes smoking and grumbling about the US does. Doesn’t matter what’s happening here, doesn’t matter who’s in power, doesn’t matter what their party is, doesn’t matter what they do or don’t do–some group in the world is going to be yelping. You have to tune it out and move forward or you end up with three hundred million people mired in doubt and ennui, like Russia or something
Rashak, glad to know you’d be so happy to have Dick Cheney as President. I had no idea he was so popular aboard!
I suppose I’m jumping in here a little late, but I agree with Aldebaran that if the US stopped supporting Israel, the Arab/Muslim world would be a whole lot happier. It might not change the way that Europe thinks of us, but it would certainly change the Middle East’s opinion of us.
I’m so sick of hearing ignorant jackasses talking about “towel-headed camel jockeys.” I recently read an article where a high-ranking military official spoke about how the US would prevail in Iraq because our god is bigger than their god. Someone forgot to tell him that Muslims worship the same god as Jews and Christians, they just call him Allah.
It’s people like that loser that make the rest of the world think we’re bloodthirsty, braindead cowboys.
Y’know, it’s egotistical attitudes like this that are a major cause of this anti-American antagonism… :rolleyes:
When I was growing up, my Mom taught me a little proverb for getting through life – “If you do good things, don’t boast; people will learn soon enough.” E.g., a little humility goes a long way. IMO, Americans have never been particularly good at this kind of quiet competence, preferring instead to yell “We’re #1!” at every turn.
Compound that with the Super-Sized Ego of George W. Bush, the shrill jingoism of flag-wavin’ Republicans, and the current Administration’s unilateral bulldozer excuse for a foreign policy, and it’s no surprise that we’ve managed to cheese off a big chunk of the planet.
Of course I don’t, nor do I believe that such data could be collected with any degree or accuracy or completeness. Perhaps my OP would be better suited for IMHO since we’re mostly limited to speculation, but I put it here since it’s a heavy topic that I figured would probably start some arguments. I can only speak from my own experience as an American abroad and on international boards. What I’ve seen for my self is an overwhelming trend of anti-Americanism, ranging from rational criticisms of current policies to mindless venting about largely-imagined shortcomings of Americans as people. I personally see it happening with Europeans, Australians, and Chinese, because that’s whose posts I’m looking at. Sorry if you think I was being presumptuous, but I assumed I didn’t have to explain that no, I don’t REALLY know what EVERYBODY thinks. I only see a very strong trend. If you’re seeing something that contradicts what I said, go ahead and spill it.
Ooppss… you got me there. Keep the puppet alive ! Please ! Don’t execute him… :eek:
If Dick Cheney buys it too … who takes over ?
(Actually very little is spoken of Cheney overhere… he manages to keep out of the limelight… au contraire of Rummy. Thou naturally some of us can see those strings around Bush… Cheney must be right over him.)
I’ll back up Space Vampire on this one… things are getting worse than before in terms of Anti-Americanism. Of course things weren’t necessarily peachy before Bush… but there has been a drop in tourism, visas and foreign students in the US. Sometimes due to just the plain hassle its become to get a VISA into the US.
I suppose American Businessmen can tell us better how much things have really changed since they travel more and have to contact other cultures.
( One thing I have noticed is that US president names have become way less common overhere. We have many people named Washington, Kennedy, Clinton and Jefferson… never heard of a Bush thou. Seems democrats are more popular names.)
And if we actually nuked Israel, I have no doubt that the Arab/Muslim world be our Best Friends 4-Ever and sign our yearbooks. Doesn’t mean we should do it.
You might consider that the apparent increase in anti-Americanism could just be an increase in volume-- the same folks who’ve hated us all along, just louder.
There are a LOT of people around the world who are anti-US due to political/personal reason who just had their prejudices reinforced by the recent Iraq stuff.
But there are also a huge amount of people who had little if no problems with the US until Iraq. The problem these people have is with the US Admin and the way the majority of Americans seemed to fall into step behind them despite what they saw was a lack of evidence for war. These people will come back to their former way of thinking IMO but it will need something like a Admin change to do it.
The rest well they’re mostly in the same bracket as the Americans who look down on non-Americans for their intellectual leftist ways and seem unable to view any subject without their prejudices closing their mind. They won’t change because they are too wrapped up in their own self-important and superior attitudes.
Thanks, Yojimbo, for the perspective. But surely the large protests in America against the war before it started were covered in Europe? It seemed to me sometimes on the Beeb that if there was one guy with a sign anywhere in the country they’d sniff him out and slap him on their website. How about the protest on Sunday (which was admittedly relatively small and went all over the place–listened to the speakers on CSPAN and slavery reparations? Native American rights? Marxism? HUH?), was that covered?
