What would Trump voters be like if it weren’t for right wing media?

I hear stories all the time of older people turning completely against their previous political views and becoming “meaner” after watching Fox News regularly for a while.

So that got me wondering about something I’ve mused about before: if it weren’t for Rush, Fox News, OANN, etc., what would their audiences be like now? Not all of them would be Democrats, obviously, but would they actually be considered “sane”? Would they be (more) willing to at least listen to climate scientists and reach across the aisle for a common good? Would they debate issues in good faith and change their mind with new information?

To put it how I once asked in GD, is conservative media a major, or a sole, reason for the problems in government we have now, as liberals/Democrats/leftists see it?

Here in NC Jesse Helms was far right and he did not have any trouble winning before talk radio, Fox ,etc. What is funny is Limbaugh and radio guys like him are pretty sane compared to his callers. Limbaugh is almost a moderate compared to callers.

I haven’t watched FOX News for years. Maybe 8 years ago I would occasionally tune in for a few minutes but could not bear to watch. But if you go back roughly 15 years, it was not the network it is now. It was very conservative but they had Democrats on their shows. The Hannity show started out as Hannity and Colmes. Now Colmes was a milquetoast liberal that Hannity could dominate, but at least it was a liberal point of View. The hated BIll O’Reilly used to have Democrats on his show and in their segments he always gave them the last word. I had heard about him and how bad he was, and when I tuned in back then I didn’t get it. I disagreed with him on everything , but he seemed like a decent enough guy. Found out he is anything but.

I don’t exactly know when FOX went from being a conservative network to a propaganda machine. Maybe it was gradual, but I suspect in began when Obama was elected. If FOX and/or Rush were your primary source of “information” when Obama was President, you would believe that he was a homosexual, Muslim, communist pornographer who hated America who wanted to put Americans in FEMA camps. And watching now, that Trump is the greatest President since Lincoln.

In that sense , I don’t blame some FOX viewers. I blame them for only trusting one news source, and many of them already believed the nonsense FOX spews and it was just confirmation of that, and I despise all of them. But not everyone who watches FOX is a neo-Nazi. I know this because I know some of them. Some of them are in my family. They are woefully ignorant, but average everyday Americans who have fell for the propaganda.

So of course FOX is a major reason for the problems in this country. Not the sole reason by any means, I think it gets about 15 million viewers or so. But those viewers talk to others who don’t watch or follow the news other than to check the weather or sports scores, and they believe what their “informed” friend or family member tells them about the liberals and Trump.

They listen to ultra conservative bald faced liars on the radio for hours.

Pardon me if I am misinterpreting, but it seems to me that the OP is misinformed. Right-wing media is not the cause of right-wing voters. It is the other way around. Right-wing voters are the cause of right-wing media.

If you were being successfully manipulated and misinformed, you wouldn’t be aware of it.

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Then their “previous political views” were of a pretty flimsy & superficial nature, if they can be that easily swayed.

It’s both. RW media wouldn’t exist if it didn’t attract advertisers. And the advertisers wouldn’t come if the RW audience didn’t exist. The RW spew-show conditions more and more people to be more and more attracted to watching the show to attract more and more advertisers.

The only alternative explanation is that RW media is mostly funded not by advertisers, but by shadowy foundations funded by foreign governments & “malefactors of great wealth” in FDR’s trenchant terms.

In any case, RW media is clearly an addictive drug. It’s consciously designed to be addictive. Just like TwitFace and slot machines are designed to be addictive.

RIght now we have a hefty fraction of the populace that desperately needs to dry out. But as long as the drug is free at the point of delivery, that’s very, very unlikely to ever happen.

I think most of us know somebody who’s fallen down the RW media rabbit hole. How to get them, and therefore our country, out of this addiction is THE important question for the rest of the 21st Century.

Late add:


An interesting question is what "hitting bottom" would look like for this addictive feedback loop between propagandist and audience. With most drugs it takes an ever bigger dose to achieve the same high. Which ever bigger dose eventually becomes impractical / impossible.

As noted upthread, Fox et al today is far far crazier than it was 10-15 years ago. So we see that bigger-dose dynamic is at work now. Will they eventually become more like National Enquirer, so obviously out-there that they’re recognized as silly entertainment, not as legitimate fact? Such that gaining new disciples/addicts becomes harder and harder? Or will we simply breed bigger fools more able to eat bigger lies? And how much more strain can the body politic take?

IOW, what does an OD look like individually and societally?

Whatever happens, it’s gonna be a large-scale tragedy. The Hutu -Tutsi genocide was fomented by hate radio from a standing start in about 8 years among two peoples who’d been (mostly) happily intermarrying for centuries. We’re just as human as they are. It can happen here.

Your cat ran across the keyboard, amirite?

Nope. We just saw somebody OD & hit bottom.

Come back John; come back towards the light! We can save you if you’ll try!

:wink:

Tilting Fox to the right was a very smart business move. Whether it was true or not, right wing folks did not like CNN, CBS, ABC, etc. because they said they were all run by liberals.

I dispute that. Fox was a crazy & vicious alternate reality during the Clinton years, and they were absolutely insane after 9/11 during the Bush years.

Fox News was always meant to foster the right-wing point of view, but the real tipping point, IMO, was the combination of the election of Obama and the hiring of Glenn Beck. The hosts for Fox News prior to this were standard conservatives (O’Reilly, Hannity, etc.) Beck was the one who introduced the conspiratorial style that has become the norm in conservative politics over the last decade.

I have been trying to watch FOX News back to back with MSNBC and CNN all within the same hour, but throughout the broadcast day for the last few weeks. It is a painful exercise to say the least and it is obvious that FOX is not speaking about the same world the other outlets are speaking about. The divide seems to get stronger at night when shows are named after people and the goal seems to be to outrage the base with what “the other” side did and is doing. During the day there is at least a nod toward genuine journalism – not after dark (except here in the west where nationally, night starts before the sun goes down).

But I started this exercise on viewership because of things claimed by remarkably misinformed conservatives of my acquaintance whom are my neighbors, and friends, and family (some of them have been influential in my life since the early 1960’s). And it is not just FOX News and conservative radio. They get these e-mails forwarded to them (and huge lists of other like minded folks) that make the most ridicules claims, offer zero support for their claims, and are authoritative in nature so weak minded folks swallow it hook-line-sinker as FACT!! These e-mails are the new urban legends using a pre- social medial platform to keep the info tight in the hands of those who will never question it, fact check it, or give it to anyone who would.

I had forgotten, but an uncle back east and a friend from college days used to include me in their blasts of forwarded nonsense (and occasionally a cousin from Florida). The premise is always the same, in the 1950’s right before any of us were alive or at an age of reason, America was great and things were as close to perfect as technology would permit. And by-the-way, if we didn’t waste so much time in the 1960’s and since then on civil rights and war protests, and ‘devil music’ and women’s lib (yes they still refer to it that way), and all the other distractions – well, we would have flying cars and liquor without hangovers by now. But as revisionist and absurd their claims about the past were, their claims about the present and the slippery slope we find ourselves upon now are worse. I got to the point that I was deleting them unopened, but occasionally I would mistake one for genuine communication because it did not have an inflammatory subject line.

On two separate occasions I tried to fight the ignorance, and in both instances it was exactly as fruitful as trying to teach a horse to sing – except one of those times ended with a death threat. The first time I took a swing for the fences was during the Obama administration when I got an e-mail that started: “Ole’ Lee sure got it right this time. Listen to this….” It was supposedly authored by Lee Iacocca and was a scathing review of Washington and how the current administration was driving the train not only off the tracks – but into a ravine and congress was doing nothing to stop them!! I read it and it was a pretty good argument, but some parts just didn’t fit, plus it sounded familiar. It took me about three minutes to find out that Iacocca had written the rant and published it in a book, but he wrote it about George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. I went to the library and checked out the book and re-read it (I had read it before) and put many sticky notes and sticky arrows throughout the book and walked it down to my uncle’s house which is just a five iron to the west. I told him that I was trying to be fair, and I would give him a week to read the book and send it to his brother in West Virginia and for the two of them to send out a correction or retraction or some acknowledgement that Iacocca was NOT criticizing Obama, but rather Bush. To his credit, he read the book (and apparently DID discuss it with his brother) but when I followed up he said that Iacocca was really washed up and his opinion didn’t matter any longer so he was not going to take any corrective measures. He handed the book back to me and draped his other arm around my shoulders and told me that Lee Iacocca was now senile and pointing out his errors like I wanted to would be in bad taste and asked me to drop it. He completely missed that I thought the author was right on and that HE needed to set the record straight.

Sadly, when the great American and industrial giant that he admired so when he thought he was criticizing Obama turned out to be criticizing Bush - - well, he became a sad old man confused and befuddled. If you are going to make an appeal to authority, wouldn’t it be nice if his (or her) authority was based upon something other than agreeing with your preconceived decisions?!?

This is already too long so just a brief synopsis of the death threat. About a year and a half later there appeared a letter written by a “decorated Marine Sergeant” who claimed that the real America was gone and decent white men could no longer have a voice in democracy because of all the Cadillac driving welfare mothers and draft dodging queers (ect. Ad nausium). Having learned not to ask the link to me to do shit to correct this, I replied all. I asked them not to include me in this kind of hate speech – this racial and misogynistic white supremacy masturbation. I pointed out some inaccuracies and asked them to think with their minds before posting and stop and think before their knee jerk reactions were committed to paper.

That led to the people who forwarded the thing to me being suspect for a while for sharing their secrets of hate with outsiders, but for me it was two weeks of asking me rather impolitely if I wouldn’t be more comfortable in China or Russia. I replied to a few and asked them to convince me their position was correct but was told that since I was a brain dead liberal it would be a waste of time. Several weeks later, I received an e-mail from someone who wrote something to this effect: “I don’t know how you got your hands on my letter, but it was not intended for the likes of you (since you are one of ‘them’ it was implied). It ended by saying if I ever dared to cross his path he would gut me like a pig and enjoy watching my blood spill on the ground. I dropped it, but I was half temped to see if I couldn’t make his head spin a little first. Finally decided he was too crazy to play mind games with.

After all that, the point is FOX news just legitimizes the crazy shit some of these people already think.
(And for the record, I have been a life long Republican who feels betrayed and abandoned by my party. The few Republicans I could admire are dead or retired, but the same uncle mentioned above told me on several occasions that they are all just RINO’s and he wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire in his carport. Have to admire his Christian charity, don’t you?)

You can get a regular guy who just listens to Rush Limbaugh and others for fun, and after months or years, it turns him reactionary.

I know two ex -friends of mine, both gun nut, both very liberal, who started listening to those radio shows and such, and now they are using phrases like “The Muslim-in Chief” etc.

You guys need to watch this documentary:

I was trying to edit my 1st post, and the parser kept refusing my revisions. I had to be at work in 10 min, so just said the heck with it and made a new post.

The thing is, I instantly recognized the base & obvious nature of the manipulation he was attempting when I first heard a snippet of his radio show years ago; this was a separate observation from the actual content of his screeds, note. I don’t understand why someone (who claims/claimed to be a liberal, recall) would be so easily fooled by such obvious bullshit tactics. Even if you didn’t recognize any of the classic fallacies in question, all you would need is one independent cite to prove him as being dead wrong, and you’d no longer pay attention to anything he says, right?

THAT’S what I don’t get.

In my experience, those who most admire Rush Limbaugh live a life that is based upon this grand Jenga tower of beliefs that are full of inconsistencies and contradictions. They are all – or were all skeptics but weak skeptics (Hi, my name is Temporary Name and I was such a herd beast that I did trust the firmly stated beliefs of others over my own sensible but uninformed and therefore insecure views). So these people have these vague notions based upon truisms and none of them are as complex as a bumper sticker. So they end up with beliefs like for example – science is good at predicting solar eclipses, but doesn’t know anything at all about global warming. Or that abortion is certainly a sanctity of life issue – but capital punishment is not. It is important for some of these people to defend these beliefs for many reasons; don’t want to go against the heard, don’t want to have to reconsider a compromised view they adopted from someone else who might have seemed infallible back when the view was adopted, or maybe just the fear that if they are wrong about that . . . what other deeply held beliefs might be wro… wr.. wron.. oh, you know. The very existence of an ideal and ordained United States of America, created as a Christian Nation by religiously pure Christians whom all escaped corrupt European state religions is based upon those beliefs. The very existence of God almighty is based upon those views being infallibly correct. My assurance of heaven when I die and a final judgment when those who are godless and evil are punished and those like me are not only spared but rewarded MUST be true!! The idea that life might not be fair and just is out of the question so my contradictory beliefs MUST BE CORRECT. All of them!

For some (many of my acquaintance) life is a constant fear that their whole philosophy and belief system is utter bullshit. So when Mr. Limbaugh or Mr. Hannity or any of their peers makes any argument that allows them to keep their wobbly Jenga tower upright – there is just a huge sigh of relief and color soon returns to their face. No need to look for logical fallacies, or consistency of thought, or anything other than relief. Of course Rush (or Laura or Sean or Tucker) is right!! How did I not see that on my own?! I sure appreciate these great Americans explaining to me how the radical left is evil and responsible for my frustration and all crime and all taxes and all godlessness!

I have been at church functions where a headline has caused a whole Narthex full of believers to sputter and hyperventilate (well not quite- but something on the scale of panic). And to see the relief, to hear the collective breath resume, to witness the passion with which they grab that metaphorical life preserver provided by right wing media is enough to cause an honest man to examine things more closely starting with his own beliefs and extending to the enablers who allow people to hang on to false ideas. Rush Limbaugh does not need to have airtight logic, he only needs to allow individuals to cling to their existing biases.

Of course, the people in my example would never call or consider themselves liberals. But forty years ago some of them started out that way.