The point about including some more … mainstream dishes is well-taken. Later versions of the menu will probably have, if not a steak, then some kind of a pork dish, and maybe some variation on meatballs or meatloaf. This is just a core set of items for now.
At the same time, this place is not going to be The Cheesecake Factory, with pages and pages of menu items. The Thai restaurant where I eat every Sunday night recently cut their offerings in half. If a menu is too big, it costs you money - you need to train your labor to produce a lot of different things, and there’s a lot more food you have to keep on hand that could go to waste.
I want to reach out to a broader audience, but there are limits. Aunt Millie may indeed want her shrimp cocktail, but is Aunt Millie who I’m trying to attract? There are a lot of people who are going to fall out of any target market. If you orient things toward families with small children, you’re going to alienate the affluent childless folks who want to have loud adult conversations - and vice versa.
You can’t please everyone - this is becoming clear.
Re: the prices As some other posters have said, the prices are not out of line for similar restaurants in this area. I think of this place as closer to a bistro than to fine dining - comparable to this place: St. Cloud’s.
Also, as I mentioned upthread, I costed out my menu items, and most of them are in the 25-30% food cost range. The pineapple braise is about 28% - to give some perspective for the poster who called it $15 for a piece of pineapple.
Re: the ingredients As other posters in this area have said, the ingredients are likely to be familiar to people here.
Re: the abundance of fruit It may seem unusual to see this much fruit on a menu in some parts of the country/world, but in this area, fruit condiments or garnish for savory dishes are fairly common. This may lead someone to expect the dishes to be too sweet. The reality is more of a sour-sweet-salty-savory balance. The menu descriptions could do a better job conveying this, but I’m trying to balance completeness with brevity.
I was visiting Everett, Washington in September and the prices on OleOneEye’s food seems to be about the same price, maybe a dollar or two cheaper than the places I ate in.
In some posts, at least, there’s been an undertone of Food as Duty - either a duty to authenticity or a duty to adult tastes.
This place isn’t authentic - and it isn’t supposed to be. For most of my adult life, I’ve eaten most of my meals in restaurants of a variety of cuisines. It isn’t about trying to be a Southwestern place, or trying to be an east (or west) African place. If this place is about anything, it’s about how any ingredient or flavor combination can become part of your pantry.
Also, I’ve noticed a tendency for people to associate “sweet” with childhood and “bitter” with adulthood. And people do acquire tastes over time. But it shouldn’t feel like an obligation - something you need to do to prove you’re a real grown-up. I’ve been served a lot of food over the years that I had to force myself to eat. Eating shouldn’t be a chore - it should be fun!
I like that. I generally am very wary of restaurants with long menus. I’d rather have a restaurant that concentrates on a small core of set dishes and some rotating daily specials than a 4-page long menu.
As I said above, there’s a bit of “trying too hard” in the menu. It seems like every menu item has an unusual element to it, which in and of itself isn’t weird, it’s just that in many cases it seems particularly forced, and I’m not sure I trust some of the flavor combinations. Let me give you my thoughts one by one:
I like all the ingredients in here, but I have no idea what the end product is supposed to be like. Poblanos and jalapenos seems like overkill to me. I’d go with just poblanos. And make sure they’re fire-roasted.
I’m not sure about the banana chips–I understand the textural element and the bit of unexpected flavor there, but it really feels forces to me. It also seems like a fairly heavy salad with the avocado and the cheese.
This looks good. A classic preparation with a little twist. Chicken & apples are not a totally off-the-wall-combination. (There is a chicken-apple soup I have a recipe for in one of my Hungarian cookbooks, for instance.)
Seems reasonable to me. Fried spicy flavors cut with mayo and a little bit of sweetness. Mango works great with hot pepper flavors. I associate it more with habanero, but don’t see any reason jalapenos wouldn’t work.
I’d suggest a soft goat cheese (chevre), but that’s because I’ve had crab & goat cheese empenadas before, and they are quite good. I think this could be reasonable.
I’m with those who wouldn’t like salmon in this particular dish–that is, if it’s really supposed to stay true to a “fish and chips” feel. Personally, I think walleye is fantastic if you want to steer away from the typical cod or halibut. And I would want a more traditional approach for such a traditional dish. As it is, it’s just fried salmon with potatoes, not “fish and chips.” And I don’t mind chefs using traditional dish names to evoke memories and riffing on them in fantastic ways–see what Thomas Keller playfully calls “PB&J” for instance. But they do it with a whimsey that isn’t evident here.
This is the oddest one to me. I can’t imagine a farmers cheese on a burger (if it’s the kind of cheese I’m thinking of, like a paneer), and combined with the poblano relish and mayonnaise it just seems like a cacophony of flavors and textures. This is one of the items that screams “trying too hard!”
Sounds like it could be good. Reasonable pairing of chicken with cranberry (although I think a stronger flavored fowl might be a better choice.) I find taro root pretty bland and dense, though, so I’d go for a different root as your side.
This sounds like it could be good, or a complete disaster. For $14.95, I don’t think I’m willing to find out.
Once again, a case of just way too much going on. I assume the chorizo is the Mexican type, unless you’re curing sausages in-house. Spinach & chorizo sounds fine. I could probably even accept the couscous. And then arbol-pineapple on top? And what’s the yogurt for? Apple-walnut salad? There’s no harmony in this that I could see.
The lime peel seems like an odd grace note, but I’d try it.
I like licorice, but good luck with the general public. I can’t see this being a big seller. (Personally, I think I’d prefer anise or fennel cookies. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to get licorice cookies and licorice ice cream.)
So is this some kind of mousse flavored with rose water or something? Not sure about the inclusion of the brittle here. It sounds like it’d be too harsh a contrast with the delicateness of the mousse.
This I would order. This sounds good. Classic preparation with some slight twists.
I love habanero. I love tres leches. I would definitely order this to sate my curiosity, but I’d be extremely skeptical of it. It just seems like habanero overload (do you really need it both in the sponge cake and the cajeta?) I’m also not convinced it will work as a dessert, but it you do it with a delicate enough touch, I may be proven wrong.
No, you completely missed the point. It’s not that we’re complaining that it’s not authentic or not adult, we’re complaining that it’s not good and not marketable.
Some were complaining that it isn’t good or marketable, but look at post #57, especially the next-to-last paragraph. Also, there are a lot of people assuming that the dishes with fruit are one-note sweet, and the word carries some negative connotations, making it a blanket dismissal. There’s more than one set of complaints.
I’d settle for the avocado salad (despite the banana chips), the roasted chicken and probably the plum cobbler (though I’d be inclined to skip dessert altogether). It’s not that I’m worried about unfamiliar ingredients or anything, just that there are no food combinations that make me think “Ooh! I have to try that! It sounds delicious!”.
I don’t know who this restaurant is supposed to appeal to. Yes, I like all sorts of cuisines and like experiencing new ones. Yes, I am accustomed to occasionally eating at moderately expensive restaurants. I live in the suburbs of Washington, D.C., after all. If I walked by this restaurant, never having even seen it before, and read its menu in the window, I would then pass it on by, looking for something better and cheaper.
The food is too expensive to be a neighborhood place. For a big meal with appetizer, main course, and dessert, this is well over $30, counting tax and tip. This is a special-night-out (or an expense-account) place if it’s anything.
The menu looks like what a chef with some experience working in a fancy restaurant would create when they opened their first restaurant where they were owner and head chef. They would be trying too hard to show how creative they were. Every dish has just a little too many ingredients. It doesn’t have a clear theme. It’s not the cuisine of any particular country. It’s not even the cuisine of a far-off region of some obscure country.
You claim that your theme is standard American food with a twist (I think). The problem is that what you’re doing is taking standard items and throwing in extra ingredients that don’t seem to fit. The only way I could ever imagine eating at this place is if I were a restaurant critic. I might go there three times, each time trying one main item, one appetizer, and one dessert. If the food absolutely blew me away, I would recommend the place. If I found it merely so-so, I couldn’t recommend it.
If you’re seriously thinking of opening up such a restaurant, I think that you’re going to lose your shirt. It’s hard to imagine this place being able to pull in enough customers to sustain itself. If the food were absolutely wonderful, I could see that you could slowly build up enough of a customer base to make a profit. To do that, you better be sure that all the restaurant reviewers, all the food bloggers, and all the hip people in your city visit the place as soon as possible. If the food is anything less than wonderful though, this can’t work. I’m sorry to have to tell you this, but you did ask for our honest opinions.
I think OleOneEye is going to have to extend an open invitation to all Dopers living in and around Seattle (and those willing to make the trip) and prepare for us a sampling of this menu, so they can then report back to us. The only way to know for sure is to try it!
And I’ll try *anything *at least once. I had pickled deer’s heart just recently. It was quite a bit like roast beef…
I’d eat at your restaurant. I rarely order apps or deserts, but assuming I’m doing both, I’d get the chili pepper fries (actually, most of the app menu looks good to me, except I’m not seeing the pastry part of the bean one, and I hate bananas so the otherwise lovely salad is out), the salmon, and the plum thing (nothing else on the desert menu sounds even a little good to me, honestly…you need some chocolate there).
I’m probably the demographic you’re going for: adventurous eater, 30 yo, married but no kids, can afford this place. I don’t think the pricing is too far out of line, although the veggie burger comes off as too expensive even if it’s the right percentage of your cost. It makes the whole menu seem too expensive, even though the rest is pretty in line with what I’d expect.
Others have mentioned that the “comfort food” theme does not come through. I’d agree. I would not have guessed that’s what you were going for reading the menu.
Trying to provide something helpful here that hasn’t been said: Your menu reminded me of this place in Portland, ME, David’s, that I ate at with my family (including my **very **food-conservative mom and my grandma) several months ago. Here is their website. Now, if my mother had read your menu, no way in hell is she eating there. It would completely scare her away, which would mean I wouldn’t have eaten there, either, since we were a party. Looking back at David’s menu, it does not read as exotic or overwrought, but all the food was really, really interesting and different in a way similar to what you’re going for. I had some meatloaf there that was so good I’m still thinking about it several months later, and I don’t even really like meatloaf.
I guess my point is that you can have your fun with this food, and you should, but if your menu scares people off you’re not going to make it. So I think you need to both broaden the menu (there aren’t enough choices there, IMHO) and tone down the descriptions so that your more average eaters aren’t turned off.
In fact, what I would recommend is having a special offer for the first couple of months after the place opens. For $17.95, you offer diners a choice of any one appetizer, any one main course, and any one dessert. This would mean a full meal for a little over $20, counting tax and tip. This will pull in a lot of people who are willing to give the place a shot. If they like the food, they will be willing to pay full price after that point. You’ll lose some money for the first couple of months, but if your food is worth it, you’ll keep them and be making good money after that.
I do agree with those who write that you should have some “safe” dishes. There are going to be people who will want something familiar. Even in a restaurant that specializes in unfamiliar dishes, you have to expect some of your customers will have been invited there by other people. This is the reason you’ll see a chicken selection in a steakhouse or a meat selection in a seafood restaurant or pizza at a Chinese buffet.
So you should have at least one garden salad appetizer, one beef (or maybe chicken) entree, and one chocolate desert at all times. You can make it fancy but these basics will be there for the customers who are looking for something familiar to order.
The important difference is that David’s in Maine has both “creatively prepared” and “simply prepared” menu options. They can serve dining groups that have both foodies and wimps. They also have lots of steak and seafood options. These are mostly absent in the OPs menu.
I think for the sake of clarification, most of us who consider themselves “foodies” recognize the ingredients and preparations. I think what we’re saying is, when you alter a dish too much, it becomes unrecognizable as the dish it is supposed to be or is inspired by.
And I’m another one who sees this more as a bistro-type place instead of fine dining.
I normally don’t eat at chain restaurants, preferring to search out local places. I could afford to eat there based on the prices you’ve listed, and I’m generally not one who really looks at prices as long as the food and experience validates the cost. But would your restaurant be on my list of places my wife and I visit weekly based soley on the menu as it stands now? Probably not. But if you had a dish or two that I found to be exceptional, we may stop by once a month. Maybe more if you have some nice wines.
There’s a little Italian place here that my wife and I visit a couple of times a month, and it’s primarily so we can split one of their starters (their Shrimp Athena with crostinis is to DIE for) and a bottle of wine. Their menu has many items like yours on it, but those items comprise maybe 20% of the menu. The other 80% are the familiar lasagne, veal, ravioli, dishes with perhaps a slight variation on the preparation, but generally not the ingredients.
I’d say if you have the capital to support yourself and pay your bills while the restaurant builds it’s reputation, go for it.
Here’s another menu from a local “gastropub” that recently won a Michelin star (and is probably the least expensive Michelin-starred restaurant here in Chicago, and feels something along the lines of what the OP has going):
Warning: PDF. And this is the dessert menu. There’s a nice balance of classical flavors there and inventive dishes. But, the most important thing, is the execution of the base flavors is impeccable.
As in in-debt graduate Student… I would have to decline on this place.
Wrong market for me because of the prices.
Taste wise (say if this was on someone else’s dime)- I’d still feel hesitant, I don’t eat beef, and I have friends who don’t eat pork, so your menu offered a nice mix of things that seemed like potential possible dishes that would appeal to my group. Except, I think it’s been said quite a bit- all of the dishes are a bit too far out there for me.
If I was invited here, I wouldn’t want to not order anything, but I’d probably end up with the Crab appetizer, and then maybe the Chicken, but I wouldn’t be happy settling for the Chicken, and would probably just try to stick with the Crab appetizer as my only dish.
In summary: too pricey for me, but also, it looked like it had potential, but then I read the descriptions, and it just seemed like too much work for not enough potential to be good. I don’t have the wallet right now to be “adventurous” but end up not liking a 15+ dollar dish. So you’d lose the college demographics most likely, but that’s probably not a market you were going for to begin with.
I touched on this before, but your menu is already too big, in that sense. Your menu is too big in the kitchen, but still too small in the dining room. All of the places I regularly eat at have menus that are somewhat smaller than yours in the kitchen, but 4-6 times larger in the dining room. The problem is that almost all of your ingredients, except for maybe some of the peppers, are single-use. You’re looking at all of your dishes one at a time: “What’s a good dish I can make? OK, what’s another good dish?”, when you should be thinking “What are a bunch of different good dishes I can make with a lot of the same ingredients?”.
(I must be the only person in America who seems to think that opening a new restaurant where a meal is going to run at least $25 is a bit of a gamble right now, eh?)