Quite a bit of good advice here, the financial advice especially. I would add:
Love is great, but it’s not enough. A successful relationship must have three things: Love, trust, and respect. If any one of those things are missing in a relationship at the time, you’re asking for trouble by marrying. In fact you’re asking for trouble by being in that relationship in the first place.
If you have love and trust but no respect, then you’ve got a housepet, not a partner.
If you have love and respect but no trust, then you have a country music song–and quite possibly some jail time somewhere down the line. (And shame on you for respecting someone you can’t trust. Bad move!)
In fact, if you had to give up any one of the three (and you really shouldn’t put yourself in a position where you do), you’re better off getting rid of love. I’ve seen several successful long-term loveless marriages, and as long as the couple trusts each other not to cat around and respects each other’s boundaries, the marriage has worked, but once you give up trust or respect, it’s just a question of who divorces the other and when.
2. Depending on how young the young people are, they might want to put off marriage for awhile. Young people have a nasty habit of undergoing profound changes almost overnight. I think back to when I was 23. I’m completely different from that time, as in if I ran into my 23 year old self on the street, we wouldn’t recognize each other. I doubt I’m the only one like this.
I wouldn’t go as far as to call it actual advice, but I’d say that if you’re both looking at major changes in the immediate future, you might want to put off the wedding until things have settled down. I married in my late 20’s (My wife was in her 30’s), and looking back on it, I’m really glad I waited.
This is so true. It drives me crazy when I hear married folks sniping at each other in a way they never, ever would with anyone else. You can say “please” and “thank you” to the check-out girl at Walgreen’s, but not to the person you supposedly love more than anyone in the world?
Lots of good advice here. I’d add:
Your spouse will do things–little, insignificant things–that will drive you batshit insane. Remember that you also unknowingly do things which irritate the hell out of them. You’ve just got to let that stuff go. Ask yourself, do you really, truly want to have a fight over the toothpaste cap?
Related to that (and this is hard for me), just because it’s not your way, doesn’t mean it’s the wrong way.
Fair doesn’t always mean 50-50. Right now, I do about 90% of the housework. But I only work 40 hours a week, while my husband works 50-60 hours. Since he works more outside the home, it’s fair that I work more inside it. (Your arrangements may vary, depending on what the two of you hammer out. That’s cool.)
Praise in public, criticize (if you must) in private. Don’t air your dirty laundry in public. If I have a fight with my husband, he and I are the only ones who know about it. Not my mother, not my best girl friend, just him and me.
Don’t let all that “relationships are a lot of work” stuff bullshit you into thinking that a crappy relationship is really ok. The “work” of relationships should be satisfying work, like gardening or working out or creating art, not painful, tedious work that you dread. The “work” should never make you miserable, only satisfied.
Related to this, while there are crappy times in a relationship, they should always be dwarfed by the good times: in a week long relationship, you better not have more than a few crappy hours: in a year long relationship, no more than a few crappy weeks, and if you’ve had two good years with someone followed by five or six crappy ones, you may not be a good match–the fact that it’s been an awful lot of work doesn’t make it “real”.
Shagnasty, you say there’s no downside to keeping separate finances, but there is the pain-in-the-assness of having to set up and maintain a more complex system. It may make sense if you have meaningful assets, but most of America, frankly, doesn’t, and if you are living check to check and putting a bit aside for a rainy day, some complex system of multiple accounts just seems like a superfluous bother.
I really liked the 10 commandments listed over there, MandaJO.
The older I get the more critical it seems to be that when relationships slide into negativity, they need to get back to the positive. Otherwise they stay there and rot.
I definitely hang around too long…I just realize that relationships are a PITA and finding someone compatible isn’t easy, i.e. “Baby, it’s cold outside.”
It is painfully simple if both people work in professional jobs. Both people just have their 401K (or other retirement plan) deducted from their pay check which is what everyone should do anyway. For other accounts, online banking and direct deposits make this concept simple as well. Direct deposit allows you to have your pay split into as many different accounts as you want. I won’t tell individual people how they should do this but the total set-up time is less than 1 hour for complex situations and more like <20 minutes for others.
It is stupid to have your essential, long-term accounts co-mingled with another person even if you are married to Jesus Christ himself. This should be self-apparent for a first marriage and even more crucial for later marriages when you have prior responsibilities like your kids to worry about.
There is almost no effort involved in any of this and the downside can, and often is, severe to both the direct participants and any innocent parties involved. Throw a rock and you will hit somebody who got cleaned out by a spouse right before or during a divorce. There is no excuse for it.
Before you get married, sit down and list all your assets (the important ones - financially or emotionally) and all your debts (the important ones, financially and emotionally - including that you’ve always promised yourself you’d send your parents on a cruise when they retire - that’s a debt). Also list down some of the things you want to accomplish - I want to travel to Europe, I want to own at least one really nice car, I want to donate a lot of money to charity and live simply in order to do it.
Before you start planning a wedding (or at least before sending non-refundable deposits) and after serious discussions about goals, debts, needs, habits, etc., have a checkpoint date to say “do we both still want to do this.” Its way easier to not get married than to get divorced.
(I got divorced, Brainaic4 called off a wedding - he had it WAY easier).
Drama is completely harmful in every way. It only adds fuel to the fire, make the subject at hand more uncomfortable, and makes you into a raging maniac/harpy shrew.
Most importantly - marry your BEST FRIEND. I’ll never understand how someone could identify anyone other than their partner their best friend. This just seems like bad decision making to me - if you were going to get a roommate, wouldn’t you pick someone you enjoyed spending time with?
And, passion is great, but it gets old fast, and becomes harder and harder to manufacture without using drama. I’ve always been creeped out by the concept of “make-up sex” because it seems to imply aggression disguised by sexual behavior - which is very distructive. Solve your problems, then have some sex.
As stated elsewhere, love, respect and trust is the trifecta.
***With my best friend for 12 years, 10 living together, 5 married.
We have co-mingled money only (with the exception of IRAs). I personally couldn’t have it any other way, though I know many couples swear by separate accounts.
I think one of the very most important issues when deciding to marry is to have like ideas about money. You will never be happy with a cheapskate if you enjoy indulging yourself occasionally, and vice versa. There are many things you can be flexible on, but in my opinion, this is not one of them. If you can’t share a vision regarding how to get yourselves to retirement, you probably will not (and should not!) actually retire together. That end goal is highly dependent upon how you view both big money and little money now.
(Together 6 years, will be married 2 in about a week)
Be nice to each other. Don’t play games, don’t be passive aggressive, don’t fuck with the other person’s head. I see so much of this in my friends who are in unhappy relationships.
The most important things in our relationship are honesty, and being NICE to each other. Today, I made breakfast for both of us. I made bacon for my self and sausage for him. He asked if he could have a piece of bacon.
Of course!
Thanks!
You’re welcome! We say thanks and you’re welcome constantly. It probably looks weird from the outside, but it works for us. I never feel unappreciated, or taken for granted.
If one of us had a bad day and the other makes dinner, or even just brings dinner to the other on the couch, we thank each other and we mean it. Meaning it is important, too.
I’m a proponent of trying different things with your money. We have co-mingled accounts, completely. It works for us. We keep each other accountable for any spending and that way neither of us gets in trouble. Right now, we make exactly the same amount (we work for the same company and make the same hourly wage). I am in school and by next summer will be qualified for a job that starts at TWICE the hourly wage. We’re still going to share everything.
I have friends who tried separate accounts, but she was a stay at home mom and he worked 60 hours a week. Neither felt a separate arrangement was fair. Now they have one account, and she has a budget for the house and for herself and she loves it. He gets control of how much, but she gets control of how it’s spent. It works wonderfully for both of them.
My advice is to live together before you get married, and move at least once. Go on a long road trip together. HAVE SEX, for heaven’s sake, and be honest and nice.
If you aren’t happy now, you certainly won’t be happy after the wedding. If you can’t get through a day, a week, a month without full blown fights, threats of breaking up, etc, even if you make up with great sex after and “promise every time it will never happen again”; if you can’t do that, then you certainly shouldn’t marry this person, no matter how you claim to feel about them. Planning a wedding is a really good measure of this; if you can’t plan a 100-guest formal wedding together, then reconsider the marriage (I don’t care if you don’t want a formal wedding; just try and plan one, and see what comes out of you!)
Similarly, having children will not improve the relationship. Ever.
Being able to sacrifice something you want for the benefit of your spouse is a good thing… as long as he/she is willing to do the same for you. That doesn’t mean you have to split everything 50/50, but if your spouse would never do for you the things you do for him/her, then there is a problem.
Marry your best friend. But don’t give up your other friends. Just because you are married doesn’t mean you aren’t still YOU, and you are entitled to all (or most!) of the things you did/were before the wedding!
If you are walking down the aisle, and thinking “well, divorce is always an option” then stop, and walk the other way. It just isn’t worth it.
Hehehe I am much, MUCH happier in my marriage than the above advice seems to suggest! 8 years together (tomorrow!) and married 2.5 years. I just had a similar discussion with a friend going through a rough break up, and these were a lot of her red flags!
Interesting, I see a pattern of long-term relationships prior to marriage. I’ve always wondered if whirlwind romances were a good idea. As for me, I lived with my spouse for three years before we married. I moved across the country to be with him after a very short romance shortly after we met. It was scary. I moved out about a year after we started living together because we were having severe difficulties in the relationship. It only lasted a few months and we both discovered being apart hurt a lot more than dealing with our troubles. We got through it and have been married for almost ten years, together for 13.
As much as I have to say, I regret living in this part of the country, I’d rather be here with my spouse than without him somewhere else. Compromise isn’t always easy, but it’s always worth it.
Do they understand what the implications of vastly different incomes will be if they ever split up?
One of the very specific things I think people need to confront when they’re married is exactly this. Like it or not, in most states she now has control over his future earnings. No matter how “fair” they think they’re being the balance sheet is getting unbalanced. If they think they are each contributing 50% to the marriage, each in their own way, they will discover differently if they split up. No matter how much he contributes to the housework, childcare, whatever, if they split up he will owe her financial support for some period of time past their separation. I don’t think most couples understand this.
My husband is my best friend, closet confident, staunchest defender and biggest admirer. I would think twice about marrying someone who isn’t all of things to you. I would also think twice and three times about someone who won’t stand up for you to his mother or her friends.
My suggestion: if you have a romantic partner you are considering marriage with, go on a wilderness camping trip, complete with lots of rain, mud and bugs. Ensure that the two of you spend a few days in the pouring rain a tent that is too small and damp. An emergency such as a minor injury, a car breakdown in the middle of nowhere, or a canoe upset wetting all your stuff is a nice touch.
If you come out of that without killing each other, and still feel like being together … then congratulations and off to plan the wedding.
Just because everyone says things will change after a few months, when the novelty wears off, doesn’t mean you have to give up and let things take a completely undirected natural course. You can actually keep trying to make things work.
Best piece of advice I was ever given regarding this was from the Minister who led part of our wedding service; he said (words to the effect) “Notice that your vows and responses don’t include the term ‘I do’. You actually have to say ‘I will’”
Yes, it takes a bit of effort, but that should not come as a surprise to anyone.
What a lot of terrific advice in here!
I’ll chip in the best advice we were given when we married eight years ago:
You will eventually find yourself fighting over something completely stupid (like the toothpaste cap mentioned above). Stop and think about what you are really angry about.
Chances are it’s not the toothpaste cap that’s bothering you, but the fact that you’ve asked him nicely to put the toothpaste cap back on five times in the past month and he isn’t doing it and it makes you feel like he’s not considering your feelings and the fact that you’re the one who always has to scrub the toothpaste goo off the counter or perhaps he is leaving it off in a passive-agressive act of showing you that you can’t control him he will leave the toothpaste cap where he wants it and why are you being so petty about something so stupid as a toothpaste cap and you’re always nagging him about dumb crap like that that and don’t you understand that he’s worked all day and he’s tired and he really doesn’t want to hear about the friggin’ toothpaste cap again?!
Deep down it’s never about the little things. But ignore those little things and the problems beneeth them and they can slowly drive a wedge in a relationship.
Learn how to fight fair. I know I get ugly when riled, and will go for the jugular instead of doing anything constructive. In our marriage sometimes we do go to bed angry, because we find it better to have a cooling off period and come back to the problem when we’re feeling more rational and cooperative.
Agree on whether or not to have children before getting married. BE HONEST. Do not assume the other person will change their mind and come around to the idea of having/not having kids later. I’m watching two marriages break up over this at the moment.
This is good. Sometimes, also, it turns out to be nothing at all - just some pissy little disagreement that got you both locked into a diverging path, as you both drove each other to further extremes of stubbornness.
“Yeah, but does it really matter if I don’t get my way?” is a good question to ask yourself sometimes.
Hah! After our 3 week honeymoon in Prague, Budapest & London, my wife turned to me on the plane home and said “I think we’re really meant for each other- you’re the only person in my life who I’ve traveled for 3 weeks straight with, and not wanted to kill.”
Actually, whoever said that you assume the other’s debts isn’t exactly right- you should talk to an attorney about that- the way my wife describes it is that the stuff you owned before the wedding is still yours, and any debts incurred beforehand are too.
Where it gets hazy is when you start paying the debts with joint funds or her funds and/or transferring money between accounts.
Very wise. It took me years (!) to realize that just because my husband doesn’t put his socks in the hamper, it doesn’t mean that he expects me to pick up after him or that he’s disrespecting my feelings. He just flat out doesn’t think about it. I’ve learned to let it go. He’s a good man, he loves me, what are a few socks in the grand scheme of things?
I haven’t figured out how to get it right yet. Three tries and I’m still hopeful. I’m an idiot. Beyond the good advice above, there is another bit. What kinds of things do you talk about now? Each of you are bringing a portfolio of your own experiences, and sharing those experiences is fun and exciting. After five years or so, you had better be building your own good memories as a couple. I can guarantee that you will tire of hearing about the “time that was” after continuous repetition.
Another almost impossible hurdle (IMHO) is integrating children from a prior marriage/relationship. They are a lever that can break up even the strongest of friendships and probably warrants a thread of it’s own. I have observed that it can be successful, but it is oh so very rare. Teenage children can be a powerful negative influence. My experience has been that you have a better chance at success if you make them from scratch.
