What's behind the backlash against health/nutrition issues in the schools?

I’m not sure why I can’t open the site but you may be making assumptions on the high carb junk food side of the menu. Since I can’t see the menu I’ll ask if the nutritional information is listed for each item. Mac and Cheese and pizza can be made with fewer calories and less fat although the grocery store dietary versions will usually compensate with more salt.

I’m not against the standards nor am I suggesting we throw in the towel. I’m just realist as to what is going to hit the plate when a budget is involved. The kids are not going to get much in the way of really healthy foods (unprocessed) because it costs too much and there is no guarantee it will be consumed. We’ve all probably seen the program on school lunches where the guy goes around trying to convince school administrators to change their evil ways. The shiny new apple goes from lunch counter to tray to trash can without so much as a 2nd set of finger prints. And when we look at the apple it’s not a fountain of nutrition. Other than fiber it’s mostly empty calories with a few other benefits thrown in.

Again, my argument is one of money. We can’t do what we’d like to do with a school lunch. In all honesty we would be better off supplying students with a multivitamin. What we see in Washington politics is nothing but a lobbyist driven argument over whose processed simulation of nutrition hits the tray.

From what I’ve read/heard, Michelle O. hasn’t just been talking about diet or just about exercise. But both, working hand-in-hand.

The federal government doesn’t have any control over how many hours Junior uses for physical activity. But it does have some say-so over what gets dumped on his lunch plate at school.

The computers aren’t going to go away anytime soon. Parents aren’t going to be less afraid to let their kids go out in play, because 24 hour-news coverage is here to stay to shock and awe us forever. But food preferences can change. They can be influenced. Fifteen years ago, people grabbed coffee from McDonalds or at a donut shop, and it was just plain ole coffee. Now there are a zallion different flavors and ways of ordering coffee, and the same number of places where you can get it. Fifteen years ago, sushi was something to go “ew!” about. Now you find sushi at the grocery store. Even a non-foodie likes me regularly consumes it.

Fifteen years ago, only hippie-dippie people knew about organically-grown foods, and they were very expensive. Now, you can find them at Walmart. Yesterday at Target, I found some organic bedsheets. WTH?

Change has got to start somewhere. Anyone who thinks Michelle O. is being a snob for taking this up as an issue has their own issues.

There are several different issues here, and I think some people are conflating them.

There’s the Michelle Obama thing, which I think can mostly be dismissed as partisan sniping.

Then there’s the state of school lunches, and federal regulations. I live in a pretty affluent area, and the school lunches here are pretty good. But parents are hyper-senstive about it, and taxes are high enough to get good food into schools. Mostly, though, cafeteria food sucks. I doubt it sucks as bad as when I was in school decades ago, but it still pretty bad.

Now ask yourself, why do you think that is? Every school district has a nutritionist, teachers and administrators who want the best for the kids, and at least some parents who are concerned about what the kids eat. Are they just lacking in federal regulations, or are they just not able to get the best food due to budgetary or other concerns. I have to think they mostly do the best they can, and it’s primarily an issue of funding and wanting to make sure they give the kids something they will eat, and not something that will just end up in the garbage can.

At least in the state I live in, they don’t want to give kids healthy meals, but do want to track overweight kids. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Diet/michigan-track-kids-weight-statewide-registry/comments?type=story&id=14518613#.Tsk2DWNFusp Who knows, maybe someday this data will be used to show the need for healthy school lunch choices for all kids.

The First Lady is going with a full court press. I see more PSA’s by her about exercise. I personally would like to see a national drive to put nutrition on the curriculum as well as cooking, finance and and maybe even basic parenting skills. I’ve never met a kid that didn’t enjoy cooking at some age. It’s truly one of those hands-on life skills that pays off immediately.

yeah, there aren’t enough smacks emoticons to punctuate what you just said.:smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack:

Hey, I go to the cinema to indulge myself. And the bastards managed to ruin popcorn. Rrrrrrrr. And yes it’s bad parenting. Lunches won’t change that because we’ve already changed the lunches. It’s not like schools are serving pork rinds with cheese sauce. It goes back to what I said about classes on nutrition and cooking. Kid’s aren’t complete sacks of wasted space. If we teach them good nutrition they will recognize and fix their own diets at home. If kids do nothing consistently they surely manage to rebel against their parents. We can even bring the parents in for some after school classes. We have to look at the tax money spent against a measurable outcome.

It’s not Michele. She’s doing what all First Ladies do which is to focus on children. Remember “just say no to drugs”. Nancy Reagan was shredded over it. GW is continually shredded over “no child left behind” and all that entailed was an artificially low standard of achievement mandate for HS graduates. We’re living in an age when a 10th grade level of education is considered too strenuous an achievement for 12th year students.

I think we’re on the same page regarding the goal of nutrition and exercise. It all comes down to the best tax-dollar expenditure applied against a measurable goal. If we’ve applied better nutrition to lunches and BMI’s go up then money needs to chase the other causes next.

what makes you think the lunches don’t meet standards of nutrition and caloric intake?

A hamburger and fries with catsup may well meet the standards, I don’t believe it to be healthy though.

If it can be shown that the better nutrition has no impact I’ll be the first to join you and say something is wrong and needs changing on that point. But I don’t think you can segregate out the lunch issue from the overall issue. This is why I say it’s one part of the solution, and a good part IMO. In addition, as noted earlier there is dispute over whether they have uniformly become more healthy. I honestly don’t know. Perhaps I should study it some and write something up about it.

You’ve already pointed it out. BMI indexes are rising. Nutritional requirements have been added since I was a kid. It’s time to focus on other causes. It doesn’t mean abandoning anything nor does it stop us from improving dietary guidelines but clearly it’s not the lunch driving up the BMI. It should be falling given the changes over the years.

Not sure how you query calories burned by children. Clearly my young relatives don’t begin to burn the calories I and my friends burned as kids. We were far more active. I’d be interested in any research you come with.

I agree with you but how do you come up with X amount of protein, X amount of vitamins and X amount of other nutritional items on a couple of dollars per child. I wouldn’t want to try to make that menu. That’s the real challenge. We’re asking schools to replace parental responsibilities. Good food costs real money.

Week 1:Teriyaki
Dippers w/Rice
Chicken Fettuccini
Macaroni & Cheese Or Theme Bar
Orange Chicken w/ Rice
Theme Bar (Cooks Choice)

Week 2: Chili, Cheese Tots w/Churros
Sweet /Sour Chicken w/Rice
Enchilada & Spanish Rice Or Theme Bar
Beef Strips w / Potatoes & Gravy
Theme Bar (Cooks Choice)

Week 3: Sweet & Sour Meat-balls W/ Rice
Turkey Mashed Potato w/Gravy
Teriyaki Dippers w/Rice Or Theme Bar
Lasagna w/Breadstick
Theme Bar (Cooks Choice)

Week 4: Sloppy Joe & Tator Tots
Chicken Patty w/Mashed Potato and Gravy
Macaroni and Cheese w/Dinner Roll
Orange Chicken W/ Rice
Theme Bar (Cooks Choice)

Week 5: Chili, Cheese & Corn Chips w/Churros
Country Beef Strips w/Mashed Potato & Gravy
Enchilada Casserole w/Spanish Rice Or Theme Bar
Spaghetti w/Bread Stick
Theme Bar (Cooks Choice)

If you guys want to see some income/class disparity in school lunches, just compare these three (I looked at K8 menus):
Boulder Valley School District (Organic meat!)
Denver Public Schools (Mystery Meat!)
Aurora (Egh)

You can see that Aurora and Denver are at least trying to make their stuff healthy, but it is still pretty gross. I can tell you that BVSD meals are actually edible.

And…nothing stops the food carts from hanging around campus at lunch time. The tameles lady does pretty well in the warmer months. Kids also leave campus for food when they’re old enough. But that’s high school - I really wish there were better foods for elementary school kids, cause that’s where it usually starts.

We’re not just letting our kids get fat - we’re contributing to it. I agree with the posters who said that home ec and nutrition classes have the potential to have the greatest amount of impact. It’s the mindset.
Also - wtf did Obama sign that pizza bill into law again?

Are PE classes manditory anymore?

As far as I know, but some schools only require 2 years of it or 4 quarters. I’m not even sure that’s the answer. For me, high school PE was miserable and I wasn’t even unalthletic. Just shy. I remember ping pong, tennis, some jogging (for some girls, that was walking and gossiping) and the dreaded shower. Oh, and a lecture on painful periods. :dubious:

This conversation has veered into the surreal.

Does anyone really think that what is served at school lunch is, by itself, either THE factor that drives or will prevent childhood obesity?

Our modern societal environment is, in its totality, obesiogenic, especially for the poor. Teaching and modelling good nutritional and exercise habits in the schools is part of a rational approach to changing that, and offering crap for meals is part of the problem. Yes, Mrs. Obama’s campaign also emphasizes MOVING more.

What would Sarah Palin’s reaction be if Michelle Obama started promoting sexual abstinence?

A few thoughts…

I think it’s important to keep in mind that the goal is not to use brute force to make every individual children more healthy whether they want to or not. The idea is to achieve cultural transformation by normalizing healthy choices and creating a culture where healthy food and an active lifestyle is valued.

And it’s not an absurd idea. With America, there are regions that have healthy food cultures and regions that have unhealthy food cultures. A map of obesity in America makes this abundantly clear. Furthermore, there are clear lines between fit an unfit cities.. A good chunk of fitness is cultural.

I can see this myself. I live in DC, which is consistently one of the fittest cities in America. We have the same Safeways and 7-11s as anyone else, but somehow that doesn’t make us balloon up. So there is more going on that availability of food. So what is going on? There is a self-perpetuating culture of health here. Where I grew up, going to the gym was for gay people and bodybuilders. Here, you’d be the odd one out if you didn’t at least run. Conversations about how your 5k training is going or what yoga studio you prefer are normal water-cooler conversation, and that is motivational. Back home, I’d think nothing of stopping by Burger King with friends to grab lunch. Here, that’d be strange, and your friends would probably make fun of you. At home, it’d be strange to walk a distance of more than a few blocks. Whenever I try to walk to my Grandma’s, literally three blocks away, my mom says “But that’s what I bought a car for!” Here, it’d be strange to drive if the place you are going is less than a mile away. Walking places is normal.

When the people around you are making healthy choices and living a healthy lifestyle, you are more likely to do the same. And this creates a self-perpetuating cycle where vendors start selling healthier foods, the city focuses on things like bike paths, employers start offering showers and bike racks, etc.

Yes, school lunchs are just one meal a day. But for a lot of kids, that is one meal out of two, which means school lunches must surely make a difference when it comes to establishing eating habits. They are, indeed, fertile ground for preparing children to make their own healthy choices. I think the main opportunity here is to cement the idea of what is a “normal” meal. When half of your meals are pizza and chicken nuggets, you come to believe that pizza and chicken is a normal meal and veggies and whatever are weird health food. When half of your meals are heavy on complex carbs, fresh fruits and veggies, you come think that is normal, and pizza and chicken nuggets are not every day foods.

Not necessarily. Senator H.J. Heinz III (R-PA) disagreed with it.

If your opinion was a motion I’d second it.

See this is why I think it is a big part of the issue, what is “processed food”

Frozen veggies are “processed” but can be quite healthful.

Tofu is also processed and is a good source of protein.

When you add in a few thousand parents who all have a view of what is “healthy” based on fad diets and myths some will conflict.

Nutritional science has a huge limiting factor in that it would be unethical to run true controlled experiments on humans, mix that in with the huge amount of money in the health food and supplement market and you end up with a lot of bad science being pressed as truth.

Even when they are proven false they live on for years and decades.

Look at the MSG hysteria that still goes around.

Lots of my friends still avoid aluminum cookware because of Alzheimer’s disease myth that has been debunked.

Remember how Crisco and margarine were pushed because they were “healthier”

Or how eggs were vilified due to dietary cholesterol?

Lately the evil ones seem to be corn syrup and starches.

Yet rice provides 20 percent of the world’s dietary energy supply and despite it being almost completely starch is the primary source of energy in many places with a much lower obesity ratio.

So yes, when they try to ban particular food stuffs I am one that speaks up, asking for the real science.