What's Bush hiding about 9/11?

You lost me, Sam. How does this impact the issue of a full and public investigation? Are you concerned that we might compromise intelligence resources? What intelligence resources!

We were bombed by the Keystone Kops of Terror! Lord love a duck, how in the world did they pull off this short bus Tom Clancy plot! Asleep at the wheel, hell! The goddam FBI was using the Force!

I submit that a full, public investigation is more likely to be a boon to our national security, What we need here is some good old-fashioned accountability.

Were you referring to me or wring? I think she’s a gal, if I remember correctly :).

Might just be a matter of personal interpretation. It came off to me as less inflammatory, than a little alarmist. And a bit hyperbolic. YMMV.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Conjecture, I think. How many and to what degree seems to be the argument. But regardless of the appeal of al-Qaida’s brand of militant Islamism ( and I have cited elsewhere a scholarly reference that believes it to be on the decline ), I think the opinion on the street is complex and to some extent contradictory. But I’m not sure from what I’ve read that it is entirely grim. For example I’m not sure feeling some sympathy with the idea of re-establishing ‘The Caliphate’ ( a concept with very different meanings to different people ), or many of al-Qaida’s stated goals, would necessarily equate with active support of al-Qaida per se. Just like average citizens of Manilla might have agreed they want the U.S. military presence at Subic Bay removed, but that didn’t necessarily translate into support for anti-American guerillas.

9/11? Yeah, conspiracy theories seem to play well in the Arab world. We could get into a whole 'nother discussion as to why.

They? Foreign governments? I disagree. I’ve seen no such evidence. Opposing U.S. military action against Iraq is not the same as allying with her. NOBODY likes Saddam Hussein. That almost certainly includes al-Qaida.

I worry about everything :). But in moderation and with all the proper grains of salt ( I hope ). I am not sanguine, but I’m not panicked either.

  • Tamerlane

Sam - Tamerlane has it all correct, I’m female, I read your post as alarmist, hyperbolic, etc. - you yourself even backed down from it quite a bit with your next posting.

Uh, Sam… this whole tangent started because I have a problem with your position re: “the war effort”. You were attempting to explain how we are “at war”… now you are down to being worried that some folks dislike us.

Congress never declared war on anyone, and the President never asked. It’s a small difference which becomes a big one when one party demands that we all toe some imaginary line because we have to remain true to the “war effort”.

shrugdecember is apparently free to talk about whatever he wants to and if you don’t agree with him then ignore him. That’s what I do. I would be happy to agree with him that the circumstances of Mr. Foster’s death are unusual if not a little suspicious, suggesting even that he might have died elsewhere than the official record says. The part about Bill and/or Hillary capping him personally I think is a lot of militia-wanking hooey; yup, that’s my opinion all right.

Why would they bring it up? They were already in negotiations with the Taliban, had been for some time, and continued to be until the discussions fell apart. (pointing at Semp’s posts) Far from doing “nothing” about the “Nazi-like” Taliban, the White House was more than eager to do a lot of business with them.

Besides, there was already plenty of saber-rattling over Iraq; what, now W’s supposed to start talking about invading Afghanistan TOO? As if he didn’t have enough image problems. Why bother invading Afghanistan or supporting some insurgency movement - all these proactive measures you describe -, when it looks like they’re willing to play ball? When they’re suddenly NOT willing to play ball.

So again, there was no need to plan for war with Afghanistan for months on end. Why? We had been trying to cut a deal with them, which is naturally the easiest and most sensible thing to do.

Exactly so. For which he needs an excuse, a really good excuse. One that would get the public unanimously on board, one that would cow the friends and allies into going along, and one that would dominate the court of world opinion so much so that the US could pretty much act unimpeded. Pushing Enron off the front page and picking up 30 extra approval points is just gravy. (And we haven’t even touched on what an incredible boon this all was to the anti-privacy movement.)

Re-read elucidator’s timely, funny post up there. That’s the sort of mindset I’m talking about.

I find it interesting that the same people who would declare that we’re not at war now because it hasn’t officially been declared are the same ones who roll their eyes when Korea and Vietnam are described as police actions instead of wars because they weren’t formally declared. War is war is war, whether congress declares it or not.

Certainly, the term needs updating, because future conflict is going to be increasingly fought against extra-national groups. But if that group is large enough, and the military mobilization to fight it is large enough, then it’s a war. Especially if it involves other states as belligerants.

As the former government of Afghanistan if it thought it was at war.

I have this dreadful, creepy feeling that any minute now somebody is going to post an excerpt from a dictionary re:“war”.

Hang it up, Sam.

The struggle against terrorism continues to have a non-trivial military component.

The Taliban executed a strategic retreat. Their current goals are to regroup as a guerrilla force and destabilize the emerging Afghan government. The US goal is to keep them disbursed.

One of Al Qaeda’s goal is to find a new base of operations, to re-establish Terror University at a viable location. Regions where the existing government does not have full control over their territory (Sudan, Chechnya, the Philippines) represent possible locations.

The US plan is to block such efforts. Using direct military force, if necessary.

Finally, it is not clear to me whether the current Pakistani regime can withstand the forces unleashed post-911. So yes, I believe that governments may fall.

Overall however, I would prefer to characterize our current confrontation with violent non-governmental organizations as, “A Challenge”, rather than a war. This emphasizes the need to rethink and retool our existing institutions and societal values (i.e. restrike the balance between security and freedom).

To suggest Bush had anything to do with 9/11 is “kooky” you say? Well sir, you would make a fine Nazi, maybe unwitting Nazi, but Nazi nonetheless. And why wouldn’t you suggest such a kooky idea? Did you mean you are fearful or it is just a foolish notion, or did I miss that you were joking in which case I apologize?
There is more evidence to show that our government had more to do with 9/11 attack than anyone else. You want smokin’ guns, how 'bout this: 1) Who was superintendent of WTC buildings? Marvin Bush was, and he took away patroling dogs a week before attack; 2) Why did Bldg 7 fall down? There were small fires on one or two floors, people were seen standing in crash hole for 1/2 hour without being burned; and no plane hit #7; 3) The BBC reporter on tv stated that bldg 7 had just collapsed 20 minutes or more before the building actually fell (which I believe was their “sign of allegiance” to the Bush conspirators); why wasn’t the reporter interrogated and beaten mercilessly? 4) After 1 and 2 collapse, how were gigantic beams protruding from basement cut on 35 degree angles just like a demolition would have done? 5) and further, why did experts say the dried molten drippings at the 35 degree cut composed of thermite and thermate, clearly a premeditated demolition, onous on you to prove otherwise; 6)three buildings hit the ground in free fall speed, each on its own footprint, each clearly showing explosions before each collapsed, totally against the laws of physics; 7) why did seismographs 20 miles away record explosions from WTC when only underground explosions could be recorded seismographically; 100 interviews from people saying there were explosions in the basement is not convincing to you, then who the hell do we believe if not the 100s running for their lives crying about explosions going off everywhere? 8) Where was Mr Sleaze, biting his lip off while listening to My Pet Goat and later lying about when he knew of the attacks; 9) Why was Larry Silverstein not interrogated by anyone after he said firemen said they “have to pull it”; Giulianni said firemen told him the same thing; 9a) Why isn’t Alianz Insurance Co under suspicion for money laundering for paying out Billions to Silverstein without much ado, when as we know, during Katrina insurance companies were unflinching turning claims away and even when Heath Ledger died his family had to fight for the insurance money; we are talking about pennies next to billions here. I conclude Alianz has got questions to answer. It is so ironic, even the most honest insurance company in history should have questioned the Tower collapses to the nth degree; if they found even a shred of possibility that it was a USA conspiracy payment should be held back.
10) Why didn’t buildings 3,4,5 and 6 fall down of their own accord, did you see the shape those buildings were in after the attack? Each were taken down the following week, because steel buildings do not fall down, period, nor can they be burned down, period. In Madrid a steel skyscraper totally engulfed in flames for over 20 hours did not fall down and while it was burnt to a cinder and almost nothing remained except the steel frame, it was yet strong enough to support a huge crane at the very top to dismantle the steel structure; this does not impress us, wow, are we dense. 11) I have seen buildings collapse, and never never do they fall into their own footprint, nevver, unless demolitioned of course (that’s what this is all about although i have not been stating it) and never do crumble to dust even Before they hit the ground which is exactly what happened at the WTC, dust BEFORE they landed, my God, the torrents of debris particles were so forceful they overtook running victims; 12) How did 600 ton 30 foot long pieces of steel columns fly over 400 feet and lodge well into the 30th floor of buildings up the street, this from a building that is “collapsing”? Beams and large debris landing almost clear across the river to Hoboken; 13) Back to Tower 1 and 2, the South Tower burned for less than one hour before it fell, from what? There was plenty of black smoke indicating fires out not on, and so a plane had hit it, big deal. A plane is nothing but framed 1/4 inch aluminum, nothing but air space like a flying room plus two engines and a lot of fuel, but fuel cannot burn at high enough temperatures to melt steel no matter what any govt official tells you, this is scientific fact. 14) The Twin Towers and Bldg 7 also were the most over-built buildings in the world and you can check that with any architect worth his salt and until you actually walk around on the floors of those buildings you cannot appreciate their enormous size. A plane crashing into Tower 1 or 2 is like an angry bee stinging me in the arm, big deal.
Wake the hell up! We are under attack by our own govt. Why, I don’t really know but I’m thinking the worst more and more. No one could be so stupid as this administration, I think it’s conspiracy, a planned destruction of our country, that is the big picture, maybe for the New World Order; all the other stupid countries in the world are following suit as we now are well aware from this financial crisis that we are in: apparently the world over has been playing the same financial games, derivatives and hedge funds games. Call me crazy, I don’t care, but if you first investigate evidence, read books like “The New Pearl Harbor” and hear lectures by Griffin, and Fetzer and Ryan, watch so many free documentaries (see 911docs.net), and add up all the “mistakes” that day, you will come to the same conclusion: our govt is responsible and I could be in jail just for saying this. Okay, I’m a fool too but honest. If you believe in govt without keeping a vigilent check on them we will see Hitler again real soon.

BRAAAAAIIINNSSSSS!

Regards,
Shodan

hahahahaha… are you serious??

Oh, jesus, not one of those.

That man has a seriously scary aversion to paragraphs! :eek:

Basic Layout Funfact: You need to visually separate paragraphs either by indenting or leaving space under them.

Basic Humanity Funfact: Joining a message board so you can post a poorly written, factually weak article with no attempt at formatting it to make it readable isn’t cool.

Reported. The high sheriff should be here soon to put a bullet through the brain of this thread.

I had a reasonably good quip back in 2002…

. . . and the deaf, blind, drunk elephant of 9/11 trooth marches on . . .

Where?

Enjoy,
Steven

Wow, where’s all the intelligent rebuffs?
Is “oh Jesus, one of those” and “hahahahaha… are you serious??” and a few grammar experts’ critique all you guys got. All your intelligence up in smoke? Straw dogs the lot of ya!

Tell me why I am wrong or do you all work for the government?

If you have nothing to say you are either blind or did not investigate on your own but took the word of government. I didn’t get on this site to make friends but I didn’t think I was the smartest that’s for sure, but now I’m not so sure. I certainly can do better than oh jesus one of those and are you serious.

You’re damned right I’m serious. Crying serious. Somebody killed 3000 of our people, our brothers and sisters downtown and everybody acts like it happened in another country.

Don’t believe it. I’m crazy but the most diabolical story in our history is unfolding before your very eyes and you are looking right past it. Were stories of Hitler, Amin, Stalin and Ho Chi Min fantasies? Governments bombing their own people to rally for a cause has been going on since the beginning of time; if you can think about it, it’s been done is a good maxim. But not here, this is America. I say bullshit, this was America.

Save your rebuttals, let me say it for you: “Go on, get outta here, you crazy or somethin’?, where’d this guy come from?”

911docs.net