What's happening on Feb 11, Mr. Ahmadinejad?

[XT]

@FinnAgain

Obviously. The Iranian thugocrats wouldn’t need to maintain their power by naked force if, hey, look over there!

Wha’…oooOOOOooo, shinny…

-XT

[Magiver]

@Dick_Dastardly

They’ve called for the destruction of the Israeli regime. Israelis are free to continue living there as long as they accept the right of return of all the Palestinian diaspora and the results of free elections following their return. Then Israelis would be free to live in the new state as a minority, like Jews do in Iran. Iran can’t actually threaten Israel militarily, even the Israelis don’t feel threatened and senior government officials have admitted that there’s a lot of scaremongering over Iran for domestic political purposes. So there’s really no need to feel so, uh, sensitive towards what you might see as a “threat” from Iran.

Israel is a Jewish state. Palestinians have Gaza, The West Bank, and all of Jordan. You’re living in a terorist’s fantasy world.

[FinnAgain]

“as they do in Iran.”
I missed that, but I do believe he was being 100% honest with how he’d like the Jews of Israel to end up.

[

The Council of the Jewish Community, which was established after World War II, is the representative body of the community. The Jews also have a representative in parliament who is obligated by law to support Iranian foreign policy and its Anti-Zionist position.

Despite the official distinction between “Jews,” “Zionists,” and “Israel,” the most common accusation the Jews encounter is that of maintaining contacts with Zionists. The Jewish community does enjoy a measure of religious freedom but is faced with constant suspicion of cooperating with the Zionist state and with “imperialistic America” — both such activities are punishable by death. Jews who apply for a passport to travel abroad must do so in a special bureau and are immediately put under surveillance. The government does not generally allow all members of a family to travel abroad at the same time to prevent Jewish emigration. Again, the Jews live under the status of dhimmi, with the restrictions im posed on religious minorities. Jewish leaders fear government reprisals if they draw attention to official mistreatment of their community.

Iran’s official government-controlled media often issues anti-Semitic propaganda. A prime example is the government’s publishing of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a notorious Czarist forgery, in 1994 and 1999.2 Jews also suffer varying degrees of officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and public accommodations.3

The Islamization of the country has brought about strict control over Jewish educational institutions. Before the revolution, there were some 20 Jewish schools functioning throughout the country. In recent years, most of these have been closed down. In the remaining schools, Jewish principals have been replaced by Muslims. In Tehran there are still three schools in which Jewish pupils constitute a majority. The curriculum is Islamic, and Persian is forbidden as the language of instruction for Jewish studies. Special Hebrew lessons are conducted on Fridays by the Orthodox Otzar ha-Torah organization, which is responsible for Jewish religious education. Saturday is no longer officially recognized as the Jewish sabbath, and Jewish pupils are compelled to attend school on that day. There are three synagogues in Tehran, but since 1994, there has been no rabbi in Iran, and the bet din does not function.
[…]
At least 13 Jews have been executed in Iran since the Islamic revolution, most of them for either religious reasons or their connection to Israel. For example, in May 1998, Jewish businessman Ruhollah Kakhodah-Zadeh was hanged in prison without a public charge or legal proceeding, apparently for assisting Jews to emigrate.7

Today, Iran’s Jewish population is the second largest in the Middle East, after Israel. Reports vary as to the condition and treatment of the small, tight-knit community, and the population of Iranian Jews can only be estimated due to the community’s isolation from world Jewry.

](Jews of Iran)

[XT]

Sure sure…but look at it from the Iranians perspective. Look how the Jews have constantly and consistently harassed the Iranian people and their government. Think about the suicide bombers strapping explosives to themselves and wandering into Iranian malls and coffee shops. The constant terrorism as the Jews snipe at Iranian soldiers, kidnapping them and ambushing them whenever they have the chance. The constant and random rocket attacks that the Jews launch against innocent Iranian citizens.

You have to at least TRY and put yourself in the other guys shoes here, Finn. Just sayin…

-XT

[FinnAgain]

Ah, yes, but if the valiant underdogs, the Cossacks (peace be unto them) had conducted their pogroms a bit more effectively, then there would be fewer Jews from Russia to vex the Iranians. And if the mighty and noble Nazi allied Grand Mufti (peace be unto him) and his brave mobs (peace be unto them) had conducted their campaigns of ethnic cleansing and violence more effectively in the 1920’s and after, there would be fewer Jews in the Levant to vex the Iranians. And if virtually every manly, ruggedly virile Arab nation (peace be unto them) had killed their Jewish populations instead of wimpily driving them out and confiscating all their property, there would be fewer Middle Eastern Jews who sought refuge in Israel and who would come to vex Iran.

And if the United States (boooo, hisssss!!!) hadn’t done a bunch of stuff before the internet was invented, then Iran wouldn’t be forced to oppress their own Jewish population or to support the brave and mighty genocidal, racist forces of Hezbollah and Hamas (yay, woohoo!!!).

So yeah, I guess you’re right.

[Argent_Towers]

The Jews were behind all of those people who “oppressed” them. They did it to themselves because they wanted the rest of the world to feel sorry for them. (It worked!)

[Sam_Stone]

I’m just glad that Obama was elected and showered the world in hope and understanding, instead of employing Bush’s ‘cowboy diplomacy’. Because God knows, he’s got the Mullahs eating right out of his hand now, doesn’t he?

[elucidator]

Hell, maybe that was the plan all along! First Iraq, then Iran! Or maybe Iraq, then Belgium, and then Iran!

[E-Sabbath]

@Sam_Stone

I’m just glad that Obama was elected and showered the world in hope and understanding, instead of employing Bush’s ‘cowboy diplomacy’. Because God knows, he’s got the Mullahs eating right out of his hand now, doesn’t he?

Well, lemme put it this way: Ahmadinejad blaming the US for all the troubles… well, it’s not sounding very convincing. He’s cracking down as hard as he can, but there is an internal legitimacy that’s growing, as opposed to something he can spin as CIA-spawned. The ‘hands-off’ approach Obama declared seems to be working in our favor.

[FinnAgain]

Doesn’t jive with the facts. Check the polls over the last years of the Bush era (I’m too lazy to look them up at present, but I’ve cited them on the Dope before), and you’ll find the exact same widely held beliefs in Iranian society. Namely:

-The US is not evil, and warmer relations are desirable.
-Their nuclear program can be discarded if they get external aid and especially if they have warmer relations with the west.
-Israel is not some sort of existential monster and they can come to a state of peace rather than constant beligerance.
(and perhaps most importantly)
-theocracy has more than run its course and democracy is the only path that Iran should be evolving along at this point.

Crediting Obama for the Iranian people’s homegrown dissent and desire for change, or its credibility for that matter, is wrong. I wondered about Obama’s effect myself at the start of all this (I started a thread if you want to search my tracker). But this is just a reminder of what I’ve been saying for years and what the “ZOMG, America is teh uber evile!!!” crowd doesn’t grok. Namely, that there is a distinct difference between the Iranian people and the government. Which is exactly as we would expect, seeing as how it’s not democratic but a despotic theocracy.

The actions of the government don’t show that the people of Iran don’t trust us, or want this or want that. They show that a corrupt clique of brutal autocratic fucks want certain things, and will impose them on the Iranian people and the world at large to the extent that they can get away with it.

[Frostillicus]

@Sam_Stone

I’m just glad that Obama was elected and showered the world in hope and understanding, instead of employing Bush’s ‘cowboy diplomacy’. Because God knows, he’s got the Mullahs eating right out of his hand now, doesn’t he?

I know. He has now been president for over a year and has yet to start an unprovoked war. Pussy.

[E-Sabbath]

I’m not saying to credit Obama. I’m saying he certainly hasn’t made anything worse, and if he’d taken the suggestions of the Republicans at the time of the start of the Green Revolution, it probably would have made things worse.

I don’t know if you were remembering, but they were all but slavering for a invasion at that point.