Cars today are so boring-they all look like eachother-just melted ice cubes. Recently, I have had the idea that it might be fun to drive an older car. The cost of maintainence might be higher, but driving an antique might make you money-the older car might well appreciate in value.
I know that a car from the 1930’s would take a bit of getting used to: no airconditioning, no powere windows, no power brakes/steering. However, I have come across a 1939 Ford Zephyr sedan in minto condition. it even has “fluid drive” (an early primative automatic transmission). The car also comes with a lot of spare parts (fuel pump, generator, wheel bearings).
So, anybnody of you ever gone BACK in time like this? Is the experience of driving a 63-year old car worth the aggravations?
Are these old cars real dogs to drive?
According to something I read by Jay Leno most older cars are fairly underpowered by today’s standards. This was in an article about Duesenbergs, which he claimed were one of the few cars of the era that could perform as well as something modern. I’ve driven cars without power steering and power breaks. It’s fun once in a while but I don’t think I would want to do it regularly.
I think if you try and drive it regularly your maintenance costs aren’t going to be high. I think they will be ASTRONOMICALLY HIGH. I can’t imagine pep boys stocking parts for a 39 zephyr. I also think as the car falls apart from wear that its value is going to decrease rather than increase. On the other hand if you are only going to drive it occasionally on weekends then I would go for it.
Have you looked into kit cars? You can get something that looks exactly like a 39 ford (or whatever else suits your fancy) but has modern power steering, power breaks, and a comfortable suspension. Heck some of them even have heaters and air conditioners.
I built a street rod out of a 1947 Hudson pickup. Ford 302 V8, three-speed manual transmission, stock suspension and brakes. Before that I had a 1941 Plymouth business coupe.
The experience is interesting. For one, there are huge blind spots; the rear window is much much smaller than you’re used to. On the Hudson, merging left was always pretty nervewracking.
The ride was about the same on both cars: Kind of a loping action, with lots of road vibration coming up through the suspension (no rubber bushings, right?) Not unpleasant. Lots of wind noise; sealing around the doors was iffy on both and the basic aerodynamics weren’t as sophisticated as they are now.
Both cars had independent front suspension; your Ford would have a beam axle. I’ve never driven one, but I’ve heard that at high speeds, some weird gyroscopic effects happen with a beam axle, and things can get a little dicey. Perhaps others who are more familiar with Fords can speak to that?
Brakes were hydraulic on both cars, and definitely not up to modern standards; you had to watch way ahead and try to stay out of traffic clusters. I think the car you have in mind might have mechanically-operated brakes (Ford was a really late adopter of hydraulic brakes, and finally switched over in about 1939-1940) which I understand are just terrible.
Steering was not heavy on either car, but lots of turns lock-to-lock, and not as precise-feeling as a modern car.
I never parked either car outside in the rain, because I had no doubt that they’d leak like a sieve and pretty soon I’d have mildew.
The heaters in both were effective, but a little hard to control, since the heat control was a valve in the heater hot water line. Lots of hysterisis, and hard to get the temperature just right. The defroster on the Plymouth didn’t use outside air, and so was completely ineffective, since it just recirculated the steamy inside air. Both cars had opening cowl vents, and man, that worked great; lots and lots of fresh air.
The driving position was pleasant; you sat up high, and on the Plymouth at least, had plenty of room. The Hudson was a tad claustrophobic, which was true of just about every pickup of that time.
Right offhand, I’d say buy the Zephyr as a sunny-day fun car, and get something more modern as a daily driver.
Just want to point out that old cars are a TERRIBLE investment. There are only a handful (less than 100 maybe?) of makes/models of cars that appreciate in value.
So don’t let the idea that it might appreciate in value sway your thinking about it.
Also, you will get killed on insurance, especially if you want to drive it more than occasionally.
Finally, the controls in older cars are often different from modern cars. I can’t imagine getting used to shifting a manual transmission car with a column shifter… Model Ts had bizzare hand controls and a foot activated shifter (not that you would get a model T, I just think it’s interesting)
Driving in the 20s and 30s was fun!
You went through traffic with all four limbs working all the time.
Your upper body was in constant workout.
Wheeling one of thoseStudebaker Presidents or Lasalles or Reos around could be a chore.
Power steering was you!
On the other hand the sound of the Model A exhaust was musical and is never to be forgotten.
Even the interior odors of hardwood framing,oil,gasoline, rubber and REAL “Honest- to- gawd” leather were great joys!
Y’shoulda been there!
This is my 1946 Willys CJ2A. Okay it’s not from the 1930s, but it’s based on a 1941 design so I guess it’s close enough.
First off: It’s slow. It can reach 60mph, but that’s rather hard on it. I usually don’t exceed 45mph – which would have been quite a reasonable clip for the regions and purposes it was designed for. (i.e., acting as a portable power unit and farm vehicle, and then going to town once a week.)
Next: Brakes. Old-tyme-y brakes aren’t what you’re used to. My Willys has brand new brakes on it with brand new lines. It won’t stop on a dime. My previous CJ2A was the same way, but the brakes weren’t as good. When someone cuts me off when I’m driving the Willys I want to shout at them, “DON’T YOU KNOW THESE BRAKES DON’T WORK LIKE YOURS???” You definitely have to plan ahead.
Handling: Handling is actually pretty good. If you’re used to power steering, you’ll be disappointed; but it drives pretty well. In fact, my mechanic, when he drove my Jeep, said it was like driving a new one (a new 1940s Jeep, that is).
I have a heater, but it’s not connected. My Cherokee will heat you right up, but my first car was a 1966 MGB (whose replacement I’m talking about in this thread.). The MGB took a little while to heat up. It seems to me my dad’s '72 Toyota pickup took some time to heat up as well.
Air conditioning? Even when I lived in the desert we only had it in one car. The MGBs of course were convertibles. You just have to roll down the window (or put down the top) and deal with the heat. Fortunately it was a dry heat. If you have always had a/c, then you’d have to get used to it.
Maintenance: The MGBs were high-maintenance. Dad’s Toyota wasn’t. But when work needed to be done, anyone could do it. Just go down to the auto parts store and get the part, then fix it in the garage. Nowadays there are multiple conputers to deal with. It seems that it was easier and cheaper to fix a car back then.
engineer_comp_geek mentions that cars were underpowered. Certainly my Willys is not the fastest thing on four wheels. My MGB topped out at just over 100mph. Remember that in the 1930s there was a depression and people needed mileage more than speed. In the 1940s there was rationing brought about by the war. Power costs money.
Willys Jeeps are rust magnets. Or maybe it just seems that way since they are over 50 years old and rust happens. But it seems to me that most old “willyjeeps” that are not kept up have rust. Same with the 1960s MGBs I’ve looked at. I think modern cars have better metal and better rust protection.
That’s all I can think of right now…
Oh – My Willys is an absolute blast to drive! A friend of mine says I have a “happy car” because it makes people happy to see it. Passersby smile, wave, honk, give me the “thumbs up”, etc.
I was a passenger in a vintage cars once, as part of a trip of a vintage car club. I don’t recall what it was, something out of the mid fifties.
Scared the crap out of me. At one point we were on a highway at night. The thing rattled and swayed, visibility was terrible, there were no seatbelts, and the headlights were unbelievably dim. I was in one car of a precession that was going from the town out to the airport to pick up arriving guests, and I noticed just about every car seem to perform like cheaply assembled toys.
Is this a Ford or Lincoln?
or
If it is a Lincoln, it is an entirely different class (esp. if it is a V12) than the Ford.
What are you looking for?
Heavy-duty cross-country, commuter, occasional picnic on a sunny day?
I drove a '29 Ford in college - the '39 is going to be heavier - see if you can get a test drive - look up a local antique car club - see if anybody knows that model specifically.
Let’s see:
Speed - it’ll do highway speeds - it probably won’t be the jackrabbit the model A was, but it will get there
Steering - no power, but I learned to drive in a '56 Ford, and it was manual-everything too. You need power steering only if you have a lot of weight on the front wheels. I doubt a '39 has that much to worry about.
Brakes - plan ahead - you will either become a very good driver, or you will meet a lot of angry people.
Heat - probably decent, but not theromstatic-controlled crap you may be used to. forget A/C, of course.
Transmission - If you can’t drive a stick, you shouldn’t be on the road. IMO (which is never humble)
Parts: gonna be a bitch, but speciality shops do still make the stuff. Find a mechanic fast - don’t know if the '39 used babbit bearings or not (running an antique will get expand your vocabulary!).
I’d find a source for parts before buying, unless it was a steal - if you can turn a profit without touching it, do it.
Appreciation:
no. idea. A model A will appreciate, a model B will, but not as much. Convertibles do better than hardtops, coupes better than sedans, 4-door better than tudor (new word?), which out-perform trucks.
Nice to haves: rumble seat, sidemount spares (spare tire/wheel mounted on a well on the front fender, cowl lights (precursors to parking lights).
Misc -
Remember hand turn signals?
The brakes are probably hydraulic (the model A ('28-'31) had mechanical.
Suspension - you aren’t gonna like rough roads.
Safety - at least get lap belts installed. And look out for idiots paying more attention to your car than their own driving.
Music - it may have an AM with an incredibly tinny speaker. Get a boombox.
ELECTRICAL!!! - that thing uses a 6 volt system (hopefully a negative ground - believe it or not, the Model A used a POSITIVE ground). This will give really crappy headlights, and re-wiring everything is expensive. How much open road night driving are you planning to do?
Well, if you were Bonnie and Clyde, you could expect your drive to be interrupted by period bursts of gunfire.
IIRC, B&C bought it in a '33 Ford
Why, it’s a matter of opinion of course!
I’ll move the thread to IMHO for you.
I owned a 1949 Chrysler Coupe and a 1950 Dodge with Fluid Drive transmissions. I don’t recall any Ford products that had an automatic transmission of any sort prior to 1954—not that my memory is definitive.
In 1954, a good friend of mine bought a 1938 Chevrolet four-door sedan–the two rear doors were “suicide” doors. I drove that car quite a lot and at 14, enjoyed every minute of it. I didn’t have that much to compare it to, but looking back, vision was sharply restricted, shifting gears (floor shift) was sometimes problematic, the differential howled and the u-joints clanked. Stopping power was pretty iffy and, as someone noted, steering the thing used all the upper body strength one could muster. In spite of all that, I would love to have that car today, although street driving would be very limited.
First car was a 1957 Chevy, but it wasn’t an old car then, so forget that. In later years, though, when it was an old, hard-to-find-parts-for car, I drove a 1955 Buick Special (four-holer) as my daily ride.
Besides the aforementioned difficulty finding some parts, it had some other older car quirks. Once you’re used to modern car interiors, a metal dash seems strange, and seat belts are, of course, not present. While the straight eight with a PowerSludge two-speed auto tranny got me across intersections just fine, it took a while to get up to highway speed, and you had to plan accordingly. It also took a while to come down from highway speed, and a panic stop on the freeway was exactly that - panic at the weakness of the ancient drum brakes’ accentuated by the marshmallow suspension bobbing two and a half tons of chrome and metal around.
OTOH, as Johnny mentioned in regard to his Jeep, it was a fun car that tended to initiate, or facilitate, social interaction. And, in the pre-SUV days, it loomed large in the crowd. There was definitely an upside.
I’m not completely sure I know what a 1939 Ford Zephyr is; you didn’t mean Lincoln, did you? Anyway, if it’s a 1939 Ford there are plenty of aftermarket parts around that should allow you to: 1.) install a modern small block Ford or Chevy V-8 with your choice of modern transmissions, 2.) you can get by with the solid front-axle, but add stiffer after-market shocks and a roll-bar, 3.) if you want it to appear stock, you can probably find some Ford bolt-pattern steel rims that will accomodate modern, wider tires - or, get some alloys and be in hot rod drag - one way or another, as with the suspension mods, what you’re after is enhanced control of the car, 4.) install after-market disc brakes at all four corners, 5.) add seat belts and consider a friendlier-than-stock steering wheel, 6.) not as big a deal as it sounds in the context of the other work, you’ll want to install a new wiring harness and make the whole car a 12 volt machine and 7.) after-market A/C and radio/sound should be easy.
And, if you’re going to do all that, paint it and spec out the trim.
Also, if it is a '39 Ford, you will encounter the itty-bitty rear window problem that Rocketeer mentions. Add side mirrors on both sides.
If it were me, at this point in life, I’d find a shop with a good reputation to do the work. If they’re experienced with this sort of thing, they should be able to understand and heed your instructions to make all the modifications with an eye towards a purist being able to restore the beast later on. Pack up the flathead and all other original pieces you pull off in the transformation and store 'em in a safe place.
You’ll then have a fairly reliable, fairly modern ride that should last you for years. Be prepared to deal with little nagging things like window weatherstripping and taillight bulbs.
I wouldn’t take a stock, mint 1939 automobile and expect to use it as daily transportation as is.
Good luck! It sounds like fun.
Ringo!!!
You be-smircher of all things wonderful!
Re-engine a classic?!
Disc brakes?
May Satan delight over you!
(heathen prefers his classics stock)
Hey heathen, note that I advised our fellow to engineer the proposed transformation in such a way that originallity can best be restored.
And I forgot to add, ralph124c, that you’ll need to tuck away that original radiator along with the flathead and add in a cooling system up to the upgraded motivation.
I must disagree with each of your statements.
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Collector cars are an excellent investment. I am close to the hobby and have my first car (1966 GTO) for what I hope to be the first of a collection some day. My father has over 30 collectible cars. A 1936 Packard he bought a dozen years ago for under $100, 000 is worth $300,000 today. A nicely restored 57 Chevy can’t be touched for less that $40,000 now, just a few years ago they were selling for half that. Pick up a copy of Old Cars and Parts magazine, there are always a couple articles each issue about auto auctions, The sales rate at auctions today is very strong.
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I pay less than $200 a year for full replacement coverage for my GTO. And there is no mileage limit. For beauty queens (cars not driven much, more show than go) insurance can be had for less than $100 dollars a year. My dad pays around $5000 to insure his collection. That is cheap for some with a value of close to a million bucks.
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I have driven many Model T’s and all had regular shifter sticking through the floor. There are 3 pedals on the floor, from left to right, the clutch, brake, and starter. The throttle (what we now call the gas pedal) is on the right side of the steering wheel hub and the spark control (they did not have vacuum advance for the distributor then) was on the left side of the steering hub. Model T’s take practice to learn to drive and some (my dad’s wife) just never get the hang of it.
I once worked for the gentleman that owned the world’s largest privately owned car collection. I have driven everything from a 1903 Oldsmobile (no steering wheel, it has a tiller to steer) to a 1983 Hurst Olds he bought brand new to add to his collection. FYI, the last time I saw the Hurst Olds a few years ago, it only had 127 miles on it.
I love to drive my dad’s 1936 Packard (dual cowl phaeton, body by LeBaron). It has a V-12 engine and a 4 speed manual transmission. Other than the shear size of the car, it is very easy to drive. Put shifter in first, let out clutch, when car starts to move step on gas. No need to give gas first, more than enough power and silky smooth cone type clutch. The car can be hard to steer at slow speeds but over 15 mph the HUGE steering wheel is easy to turn. I was riding with my dad once when some guy in a Corvette flashed his lights for my dad to get out of his way. My dad moved over and let the Corvette go. A few miles up the highway the guy in the Corvette looked in his mirror and saw nothing but Packard grille. At 95 mph. The car is capable of 125 mph.
Get a copy of Hemmings Motor News! It’s a great way to find parts, and other things one might need. Also get a factory service manual for the thing so you know how to work on it yourself (you’ll need to do that unless you upgrade certain things like the brakes to their modern counterparts). Also join the club for that car, as those guy’s’ll have sources on parts, spares they’ll often sell or give to you, and they can be a real help in many, many ways.
Carry spare tools, belts, and a decent hydraulic jack with you at all times. Also, you might want to have the engine checked over. Cars back then ran on leaded gasoline, if the original valves haven’t been replaced, then you’ll need to add a lead replacement (available at parts stores) to the gas.
Finally, find the repair shop with the oldest mechanic in town working at it. In all likelihood, he’ll have worked on that model of car in the past and won’t be stumped when he opens the hood and can’t find the fuel injectors.
As for driving an old car, there’s nothing better (outside of sex, and if you can mix the two somehow, so much the better)! Once you get used to the various little quirks the car has, you won’t want to go back to driving a modern car. There’s all kinds of benefits to driving an older car. Women notice you and don’t think things like “He’s driving a Camaro, he must have a small penis.” You’ll meet lots of people, as folks just gravitate to an old car when they see it. Finally, you can some times get work done for free! One guy was telling me about the time he took his Packard to have the wheels aligned. He was nervous because all the guys in the shop were clustered around under the car, pointing at things while they had the car up on the lift. He just knew they’d screwed something up! Took them hours to get it done. When they brought the car off the lift and told him it was ready, the guy expected a huge bill and other bad news. Instead, the guy behind the counter said, “No charge. Its always a pleasure to work on a Packard.”
I used to work with an older guy (early 60’s) who was a hot rod nut. He converted a mid 30’s Packard into a hot rod show car. He told me that in its original form, they were a bitch to stop. Usually owners in that time hired drivers who had to be rather muscular to handle such automotive beasts.
Each summer for the last 5 years, I have used my MGA (1956 design, but a rather old fashioned design for 1956) for a daily commute car.
Insurance (for the appraised value) is no worse than my Toyota.
Using a manual, non-synchro transmission, manual choke, side curtains, no power anything makes the experience much like a Ford Model A I once got to drive - but with hydralic brakes (IMHO, a must these days).
It is such a hoot that I am considering getting an MGA coupe for winter driving (yeah, I know, I’m a wimp to garage the roadster).