Oh, and I should say that my problem with the existence of AP courses that many people can’t take because they don’t exist is the same as my problem with much of American elementary and secondary schools, which is that it’s of wildly different quality depending on where you live.
There is a major cost in test development, which would be required even if they did not subsidize the tests, so I don’t think ETS is losing much by doing this. They might be doing it for good reasons (they are on the outskirts of Princeton - just down Carter Road from where I used to work) and they might be doing it to avoid pushback from universities noting imbalance in the number of AP results they get. The increasingly competitive nature of college admissions means there is a market for more and more AP courses, which they are going to meet.
I don’t think there’s ever been such a thing as “regular” calculus classes, for instance. Any class at that level, you’ve already weeded out all of the non-honors students.
They should, at least for non-STEM majors. They give credit for science classes that are way below that level.
Whereas engineering departments make the opposite complaint about AP Calc: Too much of the theory, not enough of the practicalities.
At my (private) school, any student can sign up for any of the classes we offer, as long as they’re getting all of their requirements in. We do try to steer students to the classes that best match their aptitude, but it’s ultimately their (and their parents’) decision. And I don’t think the College Board sets any standards at all for AP teachers; that’s up to the school to decide.
I was part of this discussion at my school. I think part of the problem is that it’s not entirely clear just what AP Pre-Calc is supposed to be. Is it the class that you take to get ready to take AP Calc, or is it the class you take so you never need to take a math class again in college? Those are two very different classes. If the College Board wanted to make it clear that it was intended for the latter group, it’d be better to call it “Algebra III”, because a class named “pre-calc” implies that you’ll take calculus afterwards.
@MandaJo undoubtedly knows more about this than I, but my expectation is that they spend much more on grading the tests than on developing them. Test development is hard work (at least, if you’re doing it right), but grading is hard work times a million.
As an aside, there’s a fellow around here in the news right now (he’s running for mayor of my suburb) who somehow managed to get his bachelor’s degree before graduating from high school. Even with all of the AP and College Credit Plus options, it’s hard to see how he could have made that work.
Every Precalculus class I’ve had any experience with has included trigonometry as a major component, which is not, strictly speaking, algebra.
Every Algebra II class I’ve had any experience with has also included trig, too.
Interesting. I don’t remember it being in Algebra II. I do remember it coming up in Geometry, as how can it not? But the main class was the one called Trig/Precalc, which covered both, focusing on trig in the first semester and Calculus related stuff in the second. It wasn’t just the class name: the book was entitled something like “Trigonometry and Pre-Calculus.”
As for the actual Calculus class: it wasn’t taught well. We mostly memorized derivative formulas and applied them. I honestly don’t remember getting into integrals all that much. I think we discussed how they worked, but I don’t remember having to do any of the complicated integrating methods.
I’d much rather have had the theory, but I only got that from YouTube. I now think I understand at least Calculus I, though I still lack experience working out integrals, which means I also lack the intuition that seems to be necessary to avoid doing a lot of extra work, e.g. trying things that won’t work out.
I taught AP European History to sophomores for 20 years. My best friend on campus is an APUSH teacher who has worked her way from Reader to Table Leader to Question Leader and now goes to the readings early to be part of the “norming” process Manda Jo mentioned earlier, with invited college professors. My class was always the “gateway” class at our school. Open to anyone who had the guts to take it. My friend could always tell which of her incoming juniors had taken my class as opposed to the regular 10th grade offering. My kids could think!
I also had a student who, by virtue of a number of AP tests, challenging of classes and a summer program entered Harvard as a sophomore. Worth the effort? She thought so. YMMV.
As mentioned above, scoring each test has a non-negligible cost, and most tests are still printed, shipped to schools, shipped back, and the answer documents scanned in. So the marginal cost isn’t nothing. I have no idea how the relative costs work out, but there is this constant narrative that College Board is out to “screw kids” by tricking them into taking tests. I just think it’s a little more nuanced than that.
The standards are enforced by the test; that’s sort of the point. College Board can’t really promise the class was well taught, but they can certify what a kid can do. That said, they spend quite a bit of money supporting good teaching:
- There’s some minimal effort to make sure teachers are aware of the curriculum and standards.
- Principals have to sign that the classes have appropriate books and supplies (though this isn’t checked)
- There is a detailed document describing the content, for teachers to use. Here is the one for Physics C: Mechanics.
- There is an extensive on-line platform that has test banks, previous tests, and videos of each topic being taught by competent people. Students have access to things like the videos by default, and can be assigned questions, tests, and materials.
- They train and certify people to teach AP teachers–most of the actual training sessions are offered by local colleges in the summers, but the instructors are certified by CB.
- By using teachers to score the exams, it creates a sort of feedback loop. Going to The Reading is a big part of being an AP teacher.
I think it’s called “Pre-Calculus” because most states call the high school course after A2 “Pre-calculus”. In a lot of states, taking that 4th year of math is relevant for the type of diploma you are earning. If they called it College Algebra, states might balk at using it to substitute. The CED includes a 4th unit that isn’t tested on the exam, but exists for teachers who need those topics (parametrics and conics, it looks like) to satisfy state requirements. However, it certainly covers trig in the first 3 units.
Reading between the lines, it looks like they want it to be a college algebra course, but they don’t want to say it’s not preparing kids for calculus. We actively fought against teaching it because our kids all take calculus, so what’s the point? But if I was in a school with seniors in pre-cal, I think it would be great. Too many kids go to CC and wash out over math.
Interesting math discussion! At my high school, trig was taught in “Advanced Math” - it was the last class available before AP Calculus. This was also the class where the teacher would introduce a concept, along with “You’ll never need this again, so I’ll just write the formulas on the board for test day!” I don’t remember any trig concepts in Algebra II, and definitely not in Geometry (I actually don’t remember much being taught in Geometry after the teacher had some sort of meltdown early in the spring semester).
Just a note on this, by the way: I’ve done a lot of teacher-training programs, and most of them are just boring things that you get through so you can get your certificate for such-and-such many hours of professional development so you can check off a box on your licensure paperwork. But last year I took an AP Summer Institute, and it was really great, presenting useful information about the material on the test, how to teach the material, the format and mechanics of the test, and so on. I’d definitely recommend it to anyone looking to be a better teacher, and not just to folks who need more PD hours.
As for what’s covered in other math courses, back in my day, geometry was mostly about proofs, which I think is something that we need more of, and in all math classes. I don’t think we even had any trig in it. Now, though, the state (Ohio) still has a geometry test that all high schoolers are required to take, but they don’t actually need to pass it, and the standards are incredibly vague, which means nobody’s really sure what to include in a geometry course any more, and most schools include very little in the way of proofs. Meanwhile, the state standards no longer mention any math class at all beyond Algebra II and Geometry, whether by the “pre-calc” or any other name, which presented problems for me when I needed to prepare course documents for the pre-calc class I was taking and show how I was aligning it to state standards.
Ah, if only a bipartisan group of almost all state governments had gotten together and agreed to all use the same standards across the country. That would have made all of these things so much easier, with no downside, exactly the sort of things that a bipartisan group of almost all states could agree on. Alas, it is not to be.
I’ve found them to be a little more hit-or-miss than that, but yes, far better than “normal” PD. I’m a consultant for AP Lang and the community is incredible. So many rock stars, and everyone shares resources and advice. I have friends consulting in other subjects, and it’s not always like that. Really, one of the best things about AP is that sense of community among the instructors: the Readings and Facebook groups and YouTube channels really do provide a ton of support.
It’s funny you say this. I often joke that CB constructed a national curriculum on the down-low. It’s not just that they’ve standardized their own courses, but department chairs are often AP teachers, and so they shape their department sequence based on what the AP classes need. And those are the teachers that end up on committees for state standards and other leadership roles. For my whole life, there’s been a lot of ambiguity about what to call that bit of math between Alg 2 and Calculus: everyone agrees there’s got to be trig in there, but there’s other stuff, too. CB may have forever crystalized it.
My high school’s “pre-calculus” math course was abbreviated “C.A.T.” I only remember the acronym, but pretty sure the full title was “College Algebra and Trigonometry.” I do remember learning SOH CAH TOA in that class, not really the algebra stuff we covered.
This is a very illuminating comment (I expect no less from you 
) - thank you! (As someone who was also “wtf is this AP Precalculus thing??” I really appreciated the explanation as to why it was a good thing.)
Part of the issue with “‘smart’ kids taking all AP classes” in our school district is also – well – I was told that Older Child should try to take AP classes when she can, because there isn’t so much grade inflation. Why is this? Because there’s no compelling reason not to give everyone A’s in the non-AP classes, but if you give everyone A’s in the AP classes and they fail the AP test, people will start to smell a rat.
Thanks for this, because it made me realize that the underlying problem is with our school district and not the college board – which is that our school district does AP Physics 1 in ninth [or, on further reflection, maybe tenth, but one of the two] grade. (UGH.) And no non-STEM major is going to take AP Physics 1 in ninth/tenth grade. (And so the parents I’ve talked to about this are not parents of kids who see themselves as non-STEM majors.) Our school district clearly has a lot of issues.
I’m not saying that the College Board is screwing the kids. They mostly get benefit from the system. But their parents are shelling out a lot of money for the tests (which pays off if the kids can graduate early - I wonder about the statistics for that) - and we seem to be in an arms race for ever more AP courses that demonstrate to the colleges that the kids are so advanced that they don’t really need to take courses any more.
I’d also be worried about overloading. (And I’m concerned about extracurriculars also.) Is the amount of homework for an AP class greater than for a non-AP class? One or two AP classes, no problem, but a full load?
That’s exactly the opposite for how I feel. I’m generally all for grade inflation, and one of the things I love about “teaching to a test” is that it makes my main role coach and teacher, rather that evaluator. I think there’s an inherent contradiction between asking me to both do what’s best for each student’s learning, and also rank them. With an AP test at the end, that is the evaluation of what they learned. Some little shit cheats all year? Fine. Take your 1. A kid learns a little slower, but gets there in the end? They have the same 5 as anyone else, no need to label them based on how they did the first half of the year.
College Board has a lot of stats on how useful AP credit is. Often it’s not so much about graduating early as it is about finishing on time, or at all. College Board makes a lot of hay about how kids who make even 1s and 2s are more likely todo well in those courses in college, even when controlled for other variables. In my experience, AP credit is very helpful for challenging majors: For example, in a major like Engineering, there are a lot of really tough courses front loaded and core requirements are scattered across 4 years. It’s very helpful if you don’t have that core requirement class on top of those courses, so every semester you are taking 12-15 hours, not 18, and you don’t have to spend every summer taking CC classes: you can focus on internships.
As far as overloading goes, there is a real problem where some AP teachers feel like they have to absolutely destroy kids with homework. Part of it is imposter syndrome, and a feeling your class should be really hard so that kids will respect it. Part of it is a mistaken idea that an AP class should be like a college class. It’s not: it’s college material in a high school class. They have 5 hours a week in class instead of 3, and so there should be less out-of-class work. Some of it is just teachers (including myself) are really really bad at estimating how long homework will take. Some of it is CYA: if no one can possibly do all that homework, then whenever a kid does poorly on the test, you can show it’s their fault. And some of it is just tradition.
The problem is that colleges don’t want anyone to take AP classes to get into college. What they do want are the kids who would enthusiastically take the most advanced classes available out of a pure, untainted love of learning, regardless of future plans. But those looking to get into college think of colleges as putting out a checklist for what you have to do, no matter what you want.
For whatever it’s worth, I do
That’s my impression too. Kids obviously figure that taking tons of AP classes make it seem like they have love of learning. And colleges will accept depending on what they are looking for.
In our alumni magazine a Dean of Admissions said that my MIT class was not nearly as smart as the current class. But we were a lot more interesting. So, who knows.
That makes a lot of sense – but if you’re going to have grades at all then it seems to me like the grade should at least somewhat reflect whether you know the material. My coworker had a kid who took AP Physics 1, had a crap teacher, didn’t learn anything, and got an A. She then took the AP and got a 2 (and the other kids in the class also did badly; it wasn’t just her). This did a number on her self-confidence and now she thinks she’s bad at AP tests. Obviously the underlying problem here is the crap teacher, not the grade inflation, but I think the general point – that I’ve been told my kid is better off taking AP classes because there is an evaluation process in the AP class that may or may not exist in the non-AP classes – I think still stands.
It’s not the class themselves that transfer and give you college credit, it’s the students score (1-5) on the AP test for that particular subject, which the class should help you prepare for.
Are AP exams always accompanied by classes? I took an AP english exam (and performed poorly) but I don’t recall taking any classes related to that. My expectation was that I would pass the exam and earn some early college credit. I think it cost me about $40 (1979/80)