What's the difference between AWD and 4WD?

After 208,000 miles my Ford Explorer is starting to get a bit old.

I am thinking of buying a new Jeep Liberty.

These have a 4 Wheel Drive “High” feature. This can be engaged even when driving on the highway. You can use it at any speed, even on pavement, says the Jeep salesman.

There is also a 4WD “low” feature. This is like the 4WD on my Explorer, and the way that I always understood 4WD to work. You need to be in neutral to engage it. It only allows low speed and is only useful for off-road mudding or pulling something really heavy that is stuck, etc.

I am wondering what the deal is with 4WD High. Isn’t this the same thing as AWD, like on a Subaru?

Also, any input Jeep fans (or haters) have on the Liberty would be appreciated if it’s constructive. ( I know that is IMHO territory, but my QC about 4WD is the priority, hence the forum. )

You’ll find a lot of discrepancy but AWD generally means full time four wheel drive where traditional 4WD should not be used on dry pavement.

In a normal 2WD vehicle there is a differential to allow the right and left wheels to turn at different rates when going around a corner. A standard diff has the drawback of allowing a slipping wheel to spin while the one with traction may not move at all. There are ways around this with clutch pack type anti slip devices, viscous couplings and special differentials like the Gleason TORSEN.

Traditional 4WD trucks and such a front and rear axle with regular differentials and maybe an anti-slip device in one or both. The transfer case that has none so both front and rear axle must turn at the same speed. This is potentially dangerous and causes extra wear on dry pavement because sometimes all four wheels should not be turning at the same speed. Check the owner’s manual. If it says to not have 4WD engaged and the front hubs locked (if you have manual hubs, do they even offer those anymore?) on dry pavement it is not the same as full time AWD.

I can’t say anything specifically about the Liberty, but I drive a Jeep Cherokee that’s 13 years old, has 180k miles on it, and still takes me wherever I want to go. Had some transmission problems, and the speedometer likes to stop working sometimes, but otherwise I’m quite satisfied with it, considering I don’t take care of it at all. So if the Liberty is anything like the Cherokee, I’d say go for it.

As Padeye mentioned, there are not precise definitions consistently used by all. That said, 4WD typically refers to systems where the engagement of the second set of drive wheels has to be manually selected when desired. This may or may not require stopping the vehicle, being in neutral, doing something to lock in those wheels’ hubs, etc.

AWD typically refers to systems where the engagement of the second set of drive wheels is either constant or automatic. In the automatic systems, when the speed of the drive wheels is sensed to be significantly greater than that of the other wheels (a pretty sure sign of slippage), the system automatically engages the second set of wheels. This happens very quickly. For example, in VW’s Synchro system, engagement occurs with a difference of 1/4 rotation of the drive wheels.

It gets even more confusing with older cars. My '76 truck has 4WD HIGH(basically what the AWD would be nowadays)4WD LO( 2:1 Geared reduced AWD)4WD High Loc(Transfer case locked- not to be used on dry pavement)4WD Lo Loc(2:1 Gear reduced Transfer case locked)

Padeye pretty much nailed it.

Wy wife and I have an old 4x4 truck (76). A 4x4 Pathfinder (93). and Jeep Grand Cherokee (02).

Speaking of Jeeps, from what I recall, they offer two 4x4 systems. One is basically AWD, the other is sort of inbetween 4x4 and AWD.

My wife got the less expensive in-between older type 4x4 in her Grand.

This system does allow you to leave it in 4x4 on dry pavement (what they call full time). From what I can tell, this provides power to the front and rear axles through a differential in the transfer case. But, you can go to part time 4x4 and lock the transfer case. Part time meaning that you should not use it on dry pavement.

We use 4x4 every day for about 6months out of the year. The Quadra-trak in the Jeep has worked fine for my Wife.

For myself, in the Pathfinder, as long as I don’t back up during the day, I can pop it in and out of 4x4 at any speed. If I back up, it unlocks the front hubs, and I slow down to 10 miles an hour or so before I lock in 4x4.

As a side note -

We nearly bought the Liberty instead of the Grand. One of the big draw backs at the time was when the rear seat in the Liberty folded down, it was still at an angle. It did not give you a flat cargo area. They may have fixed that.

The Grand is bigger than the Liberty, but the Grand does have a nice tight turning radius. I think this is due to it’s solid axle up front. I think the Grand turns tighter than my Pathfinder.

Also, you may want to check out the mileage difference. I think it’s only about 1mpg. That’s with the V8 in the Grand and the Liberty a V6. For us, back in 2002, the Grand was only $1000 more.

Thanks for all the info.

After looking at the Jeep site some more, there does seem to be two options for the 4WD high. The more expensive I think is meant to be engaged whenever, even on dry pavement and must have a differential to allow this.

I’d love to get a Grand, but they are about 33K for a new one with options. The liberty is only 23K with options.

Those are sticker prices. I work at a company that is a business partner with Daimler Chrysler. I printed a form with an ID # from our web site that supposably allows me to get a Jeep vehicle at “factory cost”. I’m sure this doesn’t mean the actual cost of building one. (There’s a huge markup on cars).

Anybody know what a dealer cost is, or what I can expect to pay with the magic piece of paper in my hand?

Are there any advantages to traditional 4WD? Or is it just an obsolete technology now that AWD exists?

A full-time 4WD system will be a bit lighter- although any four-wheel-drive system is going to produce a stiff weight penalty- and slip-sensing systems have trouble with things like bald tyres, odd surfaces like gravel and snow (on which ABS, for example, is a hindrance rather than a help) and uneven cargo distribution.

Btw, why is it called 4x4? Is that “four times four”? 16?

I think that might have been a marketing gimmick. I believe Nissan was the first to use the term (on the original King Cab?) and they reasoned that 4 wheels, 4 driven wheels was a bit cumbersome so they shortened it to 4/4, which ended up as 4x4 because it sounded really cool.

Plus, Land Rover uses “the best 4x4xfar”- by being synonymous with “multiplied by” in the UK (so 4 by 4 by far, geddit?).

Your typical four wheel drive vehicle has a front and a rear differential. When 4wd is not engaged you typically run off the rear differential. Both rear wheels but one can “slip.” This means that they can turn at different rates. This is useful in case you would like to make a turn. It stops your wheel from hopping. It also means that on a slippery surface you can get stuck with one wheel spinning on ice while the other will not turn though it is on firm surface.

If you engage 4wd hi, you will engage the front axle, supplying power to both front wheels. In this mode the front axle may slip as well. So again, if you drive your vehicle into a snow bank so that both a front and a rear tire are on ice, they will spin and you will go nowhere even though the other two tires may be on firm surface.

At this point, things will depend on your vehicle. If you shift into 4wdLo, your vehicle may simply drop to a lower gear ratio (wheels turn slower) and that is all. Or, your vehicle may drop into a limited slip mode which will only allow your vehicles wheels to spin independantly to a certain degree (the wheels on the ice may spin, but the others will turn at least a little,) or your vehicle may go into 4 wheel lock. 4 wheel lock means that all four wheels will turn at the same rate no matter what and will not be allowed to slip at all. In this mode, you had better be on a slippery or muddy surface, or else your wheels will hop and you will place undue stress upon your drivetrain and suspension.

In some vehicles you may have all these options; normal two wheel drive, 4wdhi, 4wdlo, and lock. This is generally considered to be the optimum set-up and you will typically find it on serious SUVs and pick-up trucks.

All Wheel Drive is a different animal. Manufactures make different types of AWD systems. The typical system will provide power to all four wheels at all times. Usually this will be in an 80/20 ratio, with 80% of the power driving the rear wheels and 20% driving the front. This gives you nice control and handling characteristics in a variety of situations. This system is usually malleable, though in that it contains a limited slip that integrates all four wheels. Any time a wheel loses traction, power is cut to that wheel (to a minimum power distribution to detect slipplage,) and is distributed to the remaining wheels that have good traction. In modern systems their is a computer involved in deciding how much power to send each wheel depending on the slippage that is detected.

This kind of system gives you excellent control on icy and slippery roads, and that is what it is designed for. However, it is not very good off-road. The system gets spoofed in an off-road situation, in mud, or in deep snow and tends to distribute power poorly.

An AWD system is therefore very good for road driving in most normal conditions.

Some AWD systems, like Subarus are fairly smart and the computers have various mathematical situations “mapped” onto their systems to attempt to detect deep snow, mud, or off-road conditions versus icy road conditions. In the former, they attempt to mimic a typical four wheel lock kind of scenario though still allowing some slippage.

In some high end SUVs you can get all this put together. When you drive around day to day, you are in AWD. In deep snow, or extreme conditions you can override the AWD system and go into a tradittional 4WD hi, lo, or lock mode depending on what you think your needs are.

To further muddy the waters, there are also some hybrid systems like Audis Quattro which behave like a combination of all these things put together. In quattro typically each wheel receives 25% of the power. Based on the mapping on the computer chip Quattro will reasign power and slippage parameters as its sees fit depending on what kind of scenario it envisions itself in.

Some of the most expensive and complex systems, like Mercedes 4matic, kinda suck. Other cheap systems, like Chrysler’s AWD also suck. Some expensive systems like Quattro work very well. Some cheap systems like Subarus AWD work very well.

For tradittional 4 wheel drive you will also have to decide what you want. Some are not very heavy duty and are to only be engaged for short periods. Others are tough.

Personally, I like my '79 Chevy pickup with normal two wheel drive, 4wdhi, 4wdlo, and lock. I can pretty much go with impunity wherever I want without fear of getting stuck. Other than that, a 2wd with limited slip is usually just as good as AWD, especially if it is a front wheel drive car.

I used to have a Chrysler Sebring, FWD with limited slip that was equal to anything else onroad. Because the weight of the engine was right over the drive wheels it pretty much always had traction in an onroad situation. Because of its lighter weight and lower center of gravity it was much more manueverable and easier to drive in slippery conditions than most SUV or trucks with any kind of AWD or 4WD system. It just couldn’t go offroad or in deep snow.

Be advised that none of these systems do any good in terms of your ability to brake. The heavier the vehicle the more difficult it is to stop. Period. If you can’t stop, the amount of traction and control an AWD/4WD system gives you can be dangerously deceptive.

The exception to this is, again, my truck. There is plow in the front of my truck. Dropping the plow is an excellent braking manuever as it will tend to bite into even ice… and if it doesn’t the plow is a nice shield as you crash.

I hope this helps.

The big difference is “All Wheel Drive” is a lie.

If you really had All Wheel Drive, the spare would be rotating while you’re driving and mangling your groceries. :slight_smile:

     --POQ (It had to be said)

As several have noted, manufacturers tend to use the two interchangably. The rare AWD Ford Tempo my grandmother used to have did not have a center differential and could only be used in two wheel drive mode on dry pavement.

There is one advantage to systems that lock the two ends together with no center differential: They are often the best system for use in mud, heavy snow, and other situations with very low traction where your tires will be slipping a bit no matter what. Many hard-core off roaders favor this type of setup. It’s not the sort of thing that is very useful on the road unless you get stuck in snow.

Excellent posts, especially from Padeye and Scylla.

I just bought my first 4-wheel drive vehicle, a Toyota 4Runner.

(I often go off-road in connection with my job, and got tired of getting stuck in my old 2-wheel drive Pathfinder.)

Anyway, my vehicle has a “Multi-Mode 4-wheel drive, with Torsen® limited-slip center differential with locking feature.” There is a switch for 2WD Hi, 4WD Hi, and 4WD Lo. It also has a separate button for locking the center differential.

I’m still going through the manual on which configuration to use in which situation. I remember that you can switch back-and-forth between 2WD Hi and 4WD Hi as long as you’re below 60 mph (or something like that), but that you have to be stopped to switch into 4WD Lo.

So is this setup like what Scylla described? How does the “Torsen® limited-slip center differential” fit into things?

Thanks!

You rock, Scylla.

Maybe I should buy a plow as a safety device? :slight_smile:

D

One important feature in any/most :confused: vehicles, weather X or X automatic trany. The (2) second gear (if you will) is most usefully in starting out on a slippery surface. Your transmission is locked in second, rather than stating in 1st as “D” drive will do. This reduces the torque to your wheels and prevents differentials from spinning one wheel.

ALSO if you are buying used, and especially if you do most of your own repairs, The manually transfer case -vs- the touch and go electronic control slip sensing units will. Buy The Manual System!!