What's the Dope on those illegal turtles, salmonella poisoning and asian dealers?

Factual Questions
1

I’ve got some family members who thought it productive to purchase some illegal turtles via the interent a few months back, while sumultaneously mocking the salmonella risks associated with said turtles.

Since then, I’ve seen a few stories about the illegal sales of some turtles on big city streets, and also some tidbits about how 25 or so children contracted salmonella from the turtles and died in one year (1978?)…thousands other were sickened.

So, do the turtles pose an elevated risk of salmonella (more so than a bunny, or any other pet)?

If they don’t pose a threat, did they ever pose a threat, but it’s since vanished while laws lag behind?

What’s the ‘Asian connection’?

My brother-in-law bought a few of these turtles for his 4-year old son, and I learned that my 2 year old son handled them when he visited. My son sees his cousin weekly, so what risk should I be worrying about??? I never caught the name/type of turtles that are illegal.

2

Just off the top of my head…What I learned when we went through the Teenage Ninja Turtle craze at this house, which ended with me doing a fair amount of research on this (and buying a Painted Turtle, Chrysemys picta, but that’s another story.)

The increased salmonella risk was due to people breeding water turtles like Painted Turtles and Red Sliders (as distinguished from “tortoises”) by the tens of thousands to fill the market need for “cute lil baby turtles” the size of a 50 cent piece. Crowded together in large tanks, they were a perfect bacteria breeding ground. And yes, kids got sick. Not sure about the actual death toll, but yeah, it was a genuine problem.

Changing the laws in the mid-1970s to prohibit the sale of turtles less than 4" in shell diameter fixed this problem, since it takes several years for a turtle to get this big. This cut out the whole “cute lil baby turtle” market altogether, and people stopped breeding them by the tens of thousands, so the huge salmonella contamination problem, Stateside at least, pretty much went away.

Of course, the rules on breeding turtles by the thousands don’t apply to Asia. I have no clue how the laws read now vis-a-vis importing Red Sliders and Painted Turtles into the U.S. from Asia.

Still, there is apparently a risk of salmonella in any reptile feces–turtle, tortoise, snake, lizard. I’m not sure why this is, but over the years we’ve had water turtles, box turtles, and snakes at our house, and the health care information has always said the same thing: “Always have the kid wash his hands after handling his pet, and after cleaning the cage/tank.”

Also, never allow your reptile to bathe in the family bathtub, since if he poops in there, it’s thereby considered to be contaminated with salmonella.

But turtles are kewl. :smiley: Don’t worry about the bugs too much, let the kids have a good time. Just have 'em wash their hands afterwards. And keep Turtle out of the swimming pool, too.

Can’t address the “bought illegal pets over the Internet” thing, as it’s none of my business. :smiley:

3

Excuse me while I have a flashback.

Am I the only one who remembers Ray Rayner’s turtle races?

http://www.tvparty.com/lostrayner.html

4

I had turtles as pets when I was a boy in the early 1970’s. (The ones with the little red stripes on their heads.)

I caught Salmonella. Spent a week in the hospital at death’s door.

When I got home, not surprisingly, the turtles were gone.

I wouldn’t trust my five-year-old to wash his hands thoroughly enough to have these animals as pets, let alone a two-year-old.

5

Ray Rayner’s turtle races! Yes! :smiley:

I still miss him.

<< wipes away tear >>

I used to get ready for school every day watching him. The coveralls with the notes…

<< snif >>

6

I know that my nephew’s turtles (the little half dollar sized ones) have been in and out of so many places/containers that the only thing standing between anyone their and salmonella is good luck.

The kid is 4 and he’ll play with them for hours, wipe his nose, eat a snack, etc.

And, salmonella takes 5-7 days to make you sick…correct? So the relationship isn’t that clear if you get very ill on a Friday, but you were handling the turltes over the previous weekend.

Is this about right?

7

There are different kinds of salmonella (the kind you get from eating raw eggs is slightly different from the kind you get from turtle poop).
http://www.hart.gov.uk/environ/envhealth/foodsafety/foodpoisoning.htm

This is a serious illness for a little kid’s system to handle.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5566.html

Questions of sanitation aside, live animals aren’t toys. I think you should make the kid understand that it’s cruel to the critters to “play with them for hours”. They’re reptiles, they have slow metabolisms and being handled a lot can be stressful. It’s not like with a dog, that can play Frisbee all afternoon and not wear himself out. Turtles should be left alone, to swim quietly, pull out and bask, eat, poop, etc.

Was me, I’d definitely install the turtles in an aquatic turtle setup (that means an aquarium with a good power filter and a basking platform and a UV light–consult Google for “turtle care”), and treat them like goldfish–look at them, don’t play with them.

8

I will also point out that while I agree in theory with Ohio State, that “little kids shouldn’t handle reptiles”, still we had the painted turtle that my four-year-old son was allowed to take out and handle once a day. Mommy just made sure he washed his little hands really good when “Raphael” ( " :rolleyes: ") went back in his tank for the day.

And he didn’t get sick.

But your “group” sounds like nobody’s really paying much attention to what Kiddo is doing with the turtles, so I’d think it’s probably better, for him and them, to put 'em in a tank and leave 'em alone.

So. FWIW.

9

I’m with Duck Duck Goose on this one. As long as the kid is supervised with his little shelled friend and who ever is supervising him/her makes sure that the kid washes his hands really well there shouldn’t be a problem. I also agree that turtles are not like dogs or cats. They generally are happiest if other then cleaning and feeding you just leave them alone. My Stink-pot hates being handled so I leave him be other then cleanings (and boy do Stink-pots make a mess).
He is under the legal size and on top of that was illegally cought and pretty much dropped on the doorstep of my g/f’s work. Not knowing where he was cought and not wanting to reliece him in the cesspools that are our local streams (there are no turltes in them) we took him in. A rather nice pet as long as you keep him clean and fed.