Happy Hannukah, Happy Holidays. They’re fine.
I wouldn’t stress about it.
aaslatten, Jews should not participate in the religious festivals of other religions… whether the observance is a Christian or Germanic Pagan one is immaterial.
gum, yes, “Hannukah” is a correct spelling of “Chanukah.” So is “Hanukah,” like in the thread title.
The Hebrew spelling is het - nun - kapf - hei, where h is a hard h as in hutzpah. The other letters’ sounds are N, K, and H. (In Hebrew, vowel marks cost NIS 250 each.)
Yeah, it doesn’t translate really well to English, does it?
Thank you, Hello Again and ** Scuba_Ben**. hehehehe, at the expensive vowels. 
Forgive this old libertarian…but why the vitriol, here? What harm is done to oneself by how one’s neighbor celebrates a holiday?
I think what aaslatten was saying is that keeping a decorated tree might not be considered so much observing an element of another religion, but co-opting it. Just like the christians took the tree; and the late December date for a holiday from the old pagan traditions, and took them for their own.
Of course, as always, that all depends on how the individual’s judgment and opinions on such matters.
Italics mine. It’s just that…well, from this statement, couldn’t the opposite be true, as well? That kids in a heavily Jewish neighborhood would feel pressure to not have a “Hannukah Bush”? It could be like just trading one flavor of conformity for another. Just another side of the coin, and all that.
But, just in closing, let me just say that I don’t have any quams about what a person celebrates, or how, or when. Do whatever feels right for you, it’s no problem by me. (Not that I have any authority over the matter, or would want any.)
I don’t think Zev is objecting to his non-Jewish neighbors celebrating their holidays any way they choose. What he’s saying is that a self-respecting Jew won’t celebrate a Christian holiday or even give the appearance of celebrating one.
It’s one of those golden calf deals.
More accurately, he’s saying that a self-respecting Jew will feel his own traditions to be adequate celebration rather than feeling “incomplete” without some form of a Christian ritual included as well.
Just to follow up on the above, as I recall the pre-1970s press (and grade-school textbook) spelling of the holiday often began with “ch”. samclem, did you run the search on that term as well?
I recall hearing the phrase during Alfred Uhry’s play “The Last Night of Ballyhoo”, which is set in Georgia in 1939, I believe. Whether or not it’s appearance there is historically accurate is another story.
I was referring to Jewish neighbors, actually. I just thought it might be a little harsh to call any Jew with a Hannukah Bush “non-self respecting.”
Yes, they would feel pressure not to have a Channukah bush… because Jews who are aware of their cultural and religious heritage are aware than participating in Non-Jewish religions is specifically forbidden to Jews under Jewish law.
Understand that Judaism is a legalistic religion that outlines correct and incorrect practice to a remarkably exacting degree. Whether following these dictates is a “flavor of conformity” is a matter for debate I suppose.
Speaking as a non-practicing Jew, I am aware that I break many of these codes on a daily basis. However I cannot imagine a situation where I could feel comfortable bringing the practice of another religion into my home, except perhaps in the case of marrying a non-Jew who felt VERY strongly about it. It’s a biggie for me.
But can they demonstrate to an “exacting degree” that decorating a pine tree truly amounts to practicing the Christian religion?
Very simply, Rancloth, it boils down to this principle: Be proud of who you are, and honestly represent what you believe in.
If you want to have a Christmas tree in your house, with lights and presents and an angel or Star of Bethlehem on top, then fine - do so. But don’t take a Christmas tree, strip it of it’s meaning (from a Christian POV) and stick it in your house and call it a “Channukah Bush.” I personally find it offensive for two reasons:
(1) It misrepresents Judaism and what Channukah is about. Channukah is a holiday which represents over victory over the forces of assimiliation. Having a “Channukah Bush” completely undermines that meaning and destroys the entire raison d’etre of the holiday.
(2) While IANAC, I would think that many Christians would find it offensive having a sacred or semi-sacred object such as the tannenbaum being shorn of it’s dignity and copied into a (in my eyes) derisive miniature version of itself.
In short, if you want to celebrate Channukah, then do it the way it was meant to be done; and not in a way that completely undermines the meaning of the holiday and at the same time, demeans the holy objects of other religions.
Zev Steinhardt
While some Christians might consider the Christmas tree a semi-sacred object, many do not and would prefer to restrict its intrusion into more “authentic” Christmas celebrations. For example, in my former (Lutheran) congregation there was a debate over whether to allow a Christmas tree to be set up in the church during Advent and Christmas. Some argued that the tree (with its pagan or commercial associations) was acceptable in the more secular environment of the home, but not in a place of worship. It has no place in the liturgical tradition, AFAIK, and “O, Christmas tree” was not an acceptable carol in the Christmas service. I have always treated it as a fun, traditional, but basically secular and non-essential holiday item. Like stockings and chestnuts. YMMV
In short, I don’t think a lot of Christians would mind one way or another if a Jewish family had a tree/bush in the home.
And here I was thinking it referred to the once-a-year bikini wax.
Good point, couch.
I didn’t but I just did. Interesting statistics. No new cites.
Searched 1940-1972. Results of total hits for various spellings as follows:
Chanuka --25 Chanukah-445
[ul] [li]Hanuka=0 []Channukah=10 [/li] [li]Chanuka=25 []Hannukah=42 []Hanukah=75 []Hanukkah=262 [*]Chanukah-445[/li][/ul]
Sorry about the previous post. Probably the wine in the keyboard.
The newspaper database I used is over at Ancestry.com. It’s a pay to play thing. It uses mostly ‘mid-America’ newspapers. I think if one searched just the New York Times and the Washington Post, etc. for the same period, the spellings might have reflected something slightly different.
IN any event, there was no earlier cite for either ‘Chanukah bush/tree’ that I could find.
Means little, but interesting to see how newpapers spelled ‘Chanukah’ in the time period.
By the way, while Leo Rosten gives four spelling variants, he spells it ‘Chanukah’ in his text. No doubt just preference.
And since someone brought up Leo Rosten, he had a story for every occasion. Even about the duality of Chanukah and Christmas.
I’m wondering about Ramadan shrubs.
Oh sure!
Open up that whole thing again!
God Rest Ye, Jerry Mendelbaum is Allan Sherman’s rewrite of the old carol. He also did The Ballad of Sir Greenbaum on Greensleeves, a tale of a grumbling Jewish knight. :j: