You see it every now and then, a submarine’s sail breaking through ice in the Arctic and crewmen wandering about on the ice.
Is this for communications purposes - the submarine needs to stick out its antenna every once in a while to receive and send messages?
Also being done so that the crew can have a breather and step outside of the steel tube and get some fresh air?
I’d assume that it would also be useful if they want to fire off their nuclear missiles from within the arctic.
But in any case, being able to surface in an emergency would be vital. If they are stuck under ice and are simply trapped, that would be a problem.
There may also be a number of rescue situations that would only be able to be achieved by a sub coming up through the ice.
As it is, what I see them doing this for mostly is to deploy scientists and their equipment. Even raw science has military purposes as well.
Hmm. Would it really be more practical to bring a scientific expedition in a military sub instead of a normal helicopter or icebreaker?
Well, it depends a lot on how far you’re going, I guess. One of the reasons to use military subs is that they are mostly nuclear powered these days, and so can run submerged for weeks or months at a time. A helicopter might not have the range to get where you’re going, and the icebreaker can only break ice up to a certain depth, and so might not be able to get tot he place you want, but the sub can go under the ice as far as it wants, and choose a place with thin enough ice to allow it to surface.
Not really an answer as to why…but Destin did a whole “deep dive”(ha!) into a sub under the ice.
This is the episode about surfacing through
A helicopter only has a few hundred mile range, and limited carrying capacity. Driving an icebreaker all the way to the pole would take a long long time, an potentially ruin the very thing they hope to study.
A shakedown cruise of a new icebreaker departed from St Petersburg on September 22 last year, and reached the North Pole on October 3, so not that long. Of course, this was not a research expedition.
Thank you… that link was excellent!
Literally, the reason the Russians do it.
Our own @robby went through the ice on board an American submarine if memory serves.
The subs are pretty well hidden and protected under the ice. No ship or plane are going to be able to reach them. Breaking the ice allows them however to reach others.
I would imagine that an icebreaker can travel through more dense ice that a submarine can surface through.
I would have to think at least part of the reason it is done is to maintain crew capabilities. We know the platform is capable of breaking through ice, but it’s a technically involved process. The way you surface is a bit different from a regular submarine surfacing, there’s only certain places in the ice that are good candidates for a break through. Once you’ve determined the ability to surface through ice is desirable, you have to actually go out and do it from time to time to maintain crew readiness to do it when it’s really needed. I think a lot of scientific expeditions that leverage this are probably somewhat piggy backing on what would be an already desirable to the military activity. I assume the core military reason we developed and maintain submarines with this capacity is so ballistic submarines operating under the ice can surface and launch missiles if the need is ever there.
I’ve watched the Smarter Every Day series of videos linked on the nuclear sub under the ice (one of the better series that YouTube channel has done), and it’s worth noting though that the submarine he’s on is not a ballistic missile sub, it’s an attack sub.
I was thinking more of a relatively thin patch of ice in the middle of a larger patch of thick ice. The sub could reach the thin ice by going underwater, while the icebreaker wouldn’t be able to reach the thin ice because it can’t break the thick ice that’s in the way.
Good point.
Did you mean weeks or months under ice? How is air supply managed for that? (I’m not suggesting that it can’t be - just asking how it’s done.)
j
U.S. nuclear submarines can, and regularly do, stay submerged for months at a time. I think Robby who is / was a poster on this board said he once was submerged for a few months. The submarines generate oxygen via electrolysis using the plentiful power provided by the on-ship nuclear reactor. The main limiter to submerged time on a U.S. nuclear sub is food, they pack it in tight all over the ship but there’s just only so much storage pace, and you have to feed the crew. I think something in the 120-150 day range is about how much they can squeeze out of the food supply in normal operations. Normally I believe thy try to get food resupplies every 90ish days.
Right. Electrolytic generation of oxygen. Reversible chemical scrubbers for CO2. Humidity management (usually, dehumidification).
If you have effectively unlimited power, atmosphere isn’t a terrible problem for a few months at a time.
Nuclear submarines generate oxygen by electrolysis from water. They also scrub carbon dioxide from the air.
This was going to be my follow-up question - nicely anticipated.
Thanks to @Martin_Hyde and @gnoitall as well.
j
Modern ballistic missile submarines (‘boomers’ in Navy parlance) are designed to fire their compliment of SLBMs while submerged to launch depth. They do not surface as that would expose them to direct attack, and their patrols are in broad ocean area away from littoral regions or other hazards that would limit the ability to manoeuvre.
Submarines designed to break through icepack have hardened sails, fairwater planes that are retractable or vertically orientable (or eliminated entirely), and other protective features; some Los Angeles-class (“improved 688”) and all Seawolf and Virginia -class attack subs have these features, but older Los Angeles and previous attack subs and boomers would be damaged going through ice. The primary reasons for surfacing through ice are high data rate communications, ice exercises (ICEX) to deploy groups for military or research purposes, or emergency venting or egress. It could also be done to launch vertical cruise missiles though this would again expose the boat to attack from the air.
A brief summary on submarine through-ice operations:
Stranger