It’s a really bad fit. People are going to express their opinions, and inevitably other people are going to disagree with some of those opinions, and eventually you have a debate. But it’s in IMHO, where you’re not supposed to debate GD-type topics. But it can’t be moved to GD, because it’s a poll.
Why not just allow polls in GD? It’s not like IMHO’s the only forum where polls are allowed anymore, since they’re also in CS and the Game Room. I can see the logic of not having polls in every forum (e.g. the Pit, or here in ATMB), but not having polls in GD creates the asinine situation in IMHO where people can say whatever nonsense they want, but you can’t debate it. (What constitutes ‘debate’ in the view of the IMHO mods seems to be less than clear, too.)
Better to just let polls on GD topics happen in GD, where the conversation can evolve naturally without drawing warnings from the moderators.
Maybe polls on GD-type topics aren’t appropriate in any forum? It seems that the implication of such a poll could be that the most-popular response is the right one, whereas GD should be about the quality of the argument, whether a majority or minority position.
The linked is a weak poll anyway anywhere, in that the choices aren’t clear (is it people who “really could have” been elected, or anyone I like; and, how can we tell the former anyway?) and the results don’t inform the discussion. The thread should have been started in GD with just the question and no poll.
Ah, yes-the good old days. Someone would start a poll on a subject that belonged in Great Debates, the usual warnings would be posted about how this was a poll, not a debate, that everyone was entitled to their own vote in a poll, and within five posts someone would post a “You are wrong!!!” screed. How could a poll vote be wrong? Is the opposing poster saying that the opinion given in that poll is not the original poster’s real opinion?
After multiple incidents and warnings, I would have to either move the thread or close it, then decide whether I should have a shot of Tullamore Dew, or just start mainlining crack.
Thanks for further elucidating the stupidity of polls on GD topics in IMHO.
My question for you is the implication you draw from your experience. Should polls on GD topics be banned from IMHO but not be allowed in GD either, or should polling be allowed in GD?
Most polls and opinions have some grounding in factual matters, especially GD-centric polls.
For example, in an opinion poll over whether or not the Assault Weapons Ban of '94 should be reenacted, someone who says they support the ban because it keeps machine guns off the streets would be wrong – the law had nothing to do with machine guns despite the common misconception based on the deceptive term “assault weapon”. Unlike the controversy over the 2nd amendment and “well-regulated militia”, anyone willing to look at the nuts and bolts of American gun law will see that the AWB didn’t involve machine guns at all.
Political opinions don’t exist in a vacuum. While there’s some degree of subjectivity, a person should strive to base their opinions on the best facts available. If one of the facts someone is using is flat-out wrong, it should be corrected. Anything less is an insult to the mission of fighting ignorance.
Allow the poll in IMHO, telling people that if they wish to debate the subject take it to Great Debates. Slap down all those who insist that they have to respond immediately, unless they can provide evidence that they are being controlled by alien parasites that have overtaken their muscle control. I have never been impressed by “You said to start a thread in the appropriate forum, but that jackass’s opinion leaves me no alternative but to respond now!” type excuses.
If you wish to debate someone on a subject that generally belongs in Great Debates, where do you think you should do it? Is it that hard to start a thread in the appropriate forum if you feel that strongly about it?
Czarcasm, someone states an incorrect fact in the poll thread, and you want the person trying to correct that to post a note “Hey everybody, come see me debate the topic over here”? Rather than correcting the fact in the thread where it is misrepresented?
Hey, you can support the weapons ban or not, and you can support it based upon incorrect information, but I’d kinda at least state a correction where people will find it.*
“Hey, you’re welcome to your opinion, but I should point out that the Assault Weapons Ban of '94 actually says nothing about machine guns.”
Okay, not me. Whomever. Whatever topic - example chosen from example given.
You might find this hard to believe, but people might actually have differences of opinion as to what the facts are, and what they might be interpreted to mean, otherwise these debates wouldn’t happen in the first place. Besides, I don’t recall ever closing down a thread just because someone corrected someone else’s facts-what usually happened was that someone explained why they voted the way they did, then someone else felt the need to “correct” that opinion with their interpretation of the facts on hand, and then it would usually snowball from there. The topics that people have trouble staying on course with are religion, politics, and human rights, because these topics invoke disagreements about the interpretation of facts.
I’m not a moderator at this time, but I would guess that the reason is that one should base opinions of important matters on facts and reason, not popularity. A cite that leads to professional studies can increase knowledge of the topic at hand, while a poll tells you what people believe, whether they are knowledgeable or not.
IMHO, of course.
Well then democracy is in a lot of trouble, isn’t it? lol.
It’s pretty obvious to me that a poll on how you would vote in a particular referendum would be most appropriate in GD and allow for discussion at the same time. Of course, I am not a moderator at this time either.
In what way does the number of people who agree or disagree with your viewpoint bolster your argument, especially if the people are anonymous?
Poster #1-“According to the scientific studies I’ve linked to, my position is right.”
Poster #2-“According to 113 anonymous posters I’ve never met, my position is right!”
The problem is, as we are currently set up, all political threads go in GD, whether they are really debates or not. This means, even threads about how you would vote would have to go to GD. If I remember the mod logic correctly, it is because a debate will inevitably break out.
Yes, your scenario would be ridiculous. But the one right above you would not be. Why do you assume that, if the feature is enabled, it will only be used to make bad arguments?
You keep on asking why it is so hard to create multiple threads. Not only have you gotten enough responses from back when you were a mod, you know from experience that, whether you think it is understandable or not, we never pull it off. What should happen and what actually does happen are two different things around here.
“But my honor demanded that I immediately respond, even though I knew the rules!”
What should happen, and what actually does happen are what usually happens around here-most have no trouble controlling their animal instincts, and giving up and throwing away the rules just because the few who can’t mistakenly believe that they represent some sort of silent majority would be a mistake in my book.
There’s more to polling than popularity dickwaving. Understanding where other people’s heads are at is a good starting point for trying to debate with them, especially if you’re interested in swaying them over to your side.
If most people already mostly agree with your position, you can focus on the nuances and skip over a lot of redundant preaching to the choir. Conversely, if a lot of people disagree with a fundamental premise of the position, the debate can focus on more basic issues.