What's the scoop on Edgar Cayce?

Hello, I found your report on Edgar Cayce quite interesting, so much so I had to look up on the ‘readings’ myself and confirm some things, which I did.

However I found some inconsistencies within your report, I will go through them now starting with,

‘One problem here, as with most claims of psychic success, is the fairly vague nature of the “psychic” predictions. It’s made worse by the fact that Cayce gave thousands upon thousands of readings–he was bound to get a few right by accident. As with most “psychics,” people remember the hits and forget the misses.’

14,306 readings to be exact actually, a few right? Try, maybe 14,000? If you have studied the EC readings at all, many, sorry most, sorry nearly all of his ‘hits’ actually worked! (his secretary kept letters before, and AFTER the readings). Those that didn’t were because the advice was not followed properly. Unfortunately you probably do not have access to the readings, I don’t like it but you have to pay for them, but if you read the content seriously I have no doubt if you can decipher the terminology you will be a follower of Edgar’s readings.

Then,

‘Many have claimed that because Cayce had no formal medical background, he could not have diagnosed people and prescribed cures–it must have been special powers. But as already noted, he was often assisted by people with a medical background. In addition, “he was a voracious reader, worked in bookstores, and was especially fond of occult and osteopathic literature” (Skeptic’‘s Dictionary again). He also knew homeopathy and naturopathy.’

Assisted by people in a medical background, if he was he had some clever doctors! but Edgar actually went against the doctors opinions and diagnoses sometimes. As for being keen on reading, yes he maybe was, he was quite a simple man though. He was a photographer for most of his life and only worked in a bookstore to begin with. As for occult literature, if you call the bible that, he read the bible cover to cover for each year of his life.

I put this question to you though, over 14,000 readings, do you have the memory recall to fill over 14,000 A4 pages with information? If you had Autism, you might have such recall, but with that recall could you then give 1000s of treatments (that just happen to work). Have with it the imagination to tell 1000s of stories of past lives, develop a complicated philosophy (to put it mildly) of life etc. Be then able to quote something word for word you did on page 2373 for example (something you had written 23 years ago)? Do you have such recall, imagination and consistency?

Then,

‘Some of his remedies weren’t as harmless as a cup of soup. He was apparently among the first to recommend laetrile as a cure for cancer. Laetrile is ineffective, but still has a cult following among those who think poison is a miracle drug (it contains cyanide).’

I cannot actually find ‘Laetrile’ in the readings, is there another name for it? I’m presuming there is, ‘Laetrile’ is ineffective, who says so? cancer.gov says ‘No controlled clinical trials (trials that compare groups of patients who receive the new treatment to groups who do not) of laetrile have been reported.’ As for cyanide, please excuse my ignorance on this, but is chemotherapy sometimes described as a poison? Also do we not use certain poisons in treatment for some things, but only in small doses?

I’m sorry you have psoriasis, when you had the following to say, but please let me defend Edgar,
'Funny, I have psoriasis and my doctor never mentioned thinning intestinal walls to me–nor do any of the medical websites I’ve consulted. ’

Could it be possible that this actually does happen? I’m not saying at all that this is the case, only is it possible? and you obviously have faith in your doctor and those trained medically, however could it be possible you place too much ‘faith’ in these people, and sometimes these ‘gods’ of the modern world can be wrong? Or maybe not wrong, but sometimes they do not see the whole picture because the relevent studies have not been carried out?

Then,

‘And one of Cayce’s own sons died as a baby in 1911.’ Have you read the reason why this happened?

As for advising cures for dead people, I would be very interested to see the source of this information, because if I did and it could be established with unequivocal evidence that it was not fabricated information, that would actually convince me Edgar might have been the greatest fraud of all time. For example, tonight I saw the Sai Baba videos of fabrication, I mean materialization and it convinced me he is/was one of the greatest frauds (I had established this before though but the videos completely sold the idea) in the whole history of mankind.

As for the Lindbergh kidnapping, I cannot comment on it, I’ve never heard of it, but from what I have seen just now, granted it does not look good, but I don’t know what happened? James Randi tells us the information and then says most of the information is wrong, without an explanation as to what actually happened, so could somebody please point me in the right direction?

As for the death ray, 1958, I don’t know about that but that was the same year he predicted the records left by those in Atlantis would be found (under the right paw of the Sphinx) the point of these records was to ‘let God be known to all’ dangerous information I would say, imagine a world where everybody gave up their material possessions like St. Francis of Assisi, looked to God instead of saving up for a new pair of Nike’s. The world would crumble, would it not? As for Roswell, I think that just supports the idea that maybe they did find it? Dangerous, how did the ‘Taliban’ get their guns? Oh that fight is over now, sorry, how many trillion dollars is the oil industry worth? Dangerous, indeed, that is a Government for you, can we have a recount please. Dangerous also is the written word that is why I feel an obligation to defend Edgar.

The excuse we give for not finding oil as far as I know is that it didn’t work for material gain, which is fair enough is it not? also I think some of the oil ‘hits’ did work? Maybe it depended on which individual asked for the information? (and what would be done with the funds).

There are unfortunately a few discrepancies with the readings, as a scientist I must concede this (I’m not really a scientist, but if I were…). Land masses rising, 1933, 1998 - second coming etc however as far as I can tell you can only pick holes with a few out of over 14,000 things, maybe if it was the other way around, where there were only 306 things right, and the other 14,000 things were proved to be a load of bull, maybe I would feel the same as you. We are told by Edgar that the future is not fixed and that we have free will, that might explain why some ‘prophecies’ were not accurate, another reason maybe is because there was a method to Edgar’s ‘madness’ (Edgar being the source of the information, its an interesting read what the actual source was). Maybe, just maybe these things that were false were put forward so future generations would question the validity of the readings (as you and I both are doing) and so it would take a certain amount of ‘faith’ to believe the rest of them. If you heard a voice from the sky that declared, ‘I am God’ pretty much everyone would immediately have to drop all their pre-conceived notions (except for the concept of God of course) and concede that this is proof, but no, we do not have such proof. Therefore if every thing out of the 14,306 readings was correct, would we not have unequivocal proof that there is a substance to the readings? we then do not have to rely on faith, its fact, we are no longer suffering from mass delusion as it were. So, maybe that was the point, to have faith?

Whether Edgar Cayce is full of shit or not, you have to concede that the philosophy of life the readings teach, the laws of karma etc are conducive to society, they do not inhibit mans thinking in any way, in fact they allow the mind more access to creative forces, more creative thinking and amongst other things, hope. Hope of eternal life, hope of better times, hope that things can change, and hope that there is a God. If you think I’m some sort of religious ‘nut’ you would be wrong, I’m telling the Holy Spirit now to F off right now, an unforgivable sin is it not? Maybe the Bible is slightly out of date at times, and Edgar Cayce is the ‘update’ it needed?

I will go and get a book that has one of the best quotes I’ve ever read to end this ‘discussion’ but before I do a quote from ‘Edgar’ seems apt now, bear in mind he teaches reincarnation,

‘This may be a hard statement for many, but you will eventually come to know it is true: No fault, no hurt comes to self save that thou hast created in thine consciousness, in thine inner self, the cause. For only those that ye love may hurt you.’

Edgar Cayce Reading 262-83

Like I said, faith, the language used does not endear you to him, I know.

The quote I will end on, “We are addicted to our beliefs and we do act like addicts when someone tries to wrest from us the powerful opium of our dogmas. And since western science has devoted several centuries to not believing in the paranormal, it is not going to surrender its addiction lightly”

Godbless.

P.S. I hope this is not my first and last post, I hope to at least provoke some thought on the matter and open some sort of dialogue.

Welcome not_enlightened_yet. One thing that’s good to do is put in a link to the column being discussed so that others can follow along.

As simple as hitting “copy” and “paste” http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcayce.html

Should be an interesting discussion. At least you’re over Sai Baba. My brother still thinks he’s the real deal. I got tired years ago of trying to debate Cayce with him(my brother, not Sai Baba).

Certainly you’ve stated your position clearly, but lacking any actual quotes from Cayce there’s no reason for anyone to have any reason to trust your assertions.

Even within your post you state that the overall majority of the readings are “true,” as in foretold the future accurately, but then spend the latter half of the post explaining how most of his writings detail a belief system and aren’t prognostications. And the prophecies that you do comment on, all of them are false or as you say, “it would take a certain amount of ‘faith’ to believe.”

I would personally guess that his prophecies are written in a sufficiently obtuse manner that someone who wants to believe can decide for himself what was prophesied. It’s very easy to come up with 14,000 correct prophesies if you word things right.

“In 2008, the new president shall reveal a mighty secret and thence drastic measures unfold!”

Thanks, I forgot probably the most important thing (copying and pasting), I’ve never been on a forum before, so please excuse this error. I presume your brother has not seen the video’s!? To be fair to Sai Baba though he was responsible for the building of the second biggest hospital in Asia, and obviously convinced a multi-millionaire of his ‘powers’ but I realise he has abused his position since then.

As for Edgar Cayce I think your brother is on to something there as probably you are already aware!

To add to my original post and comment on the other comment on this thread, when I say Edgar had something like 14,000 hits, what I mean by that is that he was able to make people better, sort out relationship issues and explain how people’s present circumstances were as such (of course these past lives cannot be proved). The ‘Sleeping Prophet’ is a misleading title probably created by the media at the time, he was more of a doctor, counseller and philospher who was more able to cure somebody of stammering rather than predict a future event.

To add quotes from Edgar would take up more space, and I think I already used up too much! The assertions I make can be backed up though.

In science, when you can’t test all of everything, what you do is get a representative sample. Sometimes this becomes the source of a debate over the reliability of the study–for instance, if you’re doing a study on how many people can read, but then conduct all your polling in the middle of a college campus…

But, assuming you have all the readings in some sort of book form, you have simply to open to a random page and list the next 10 or 20 starting from there. Of course, you will need to verify the readings by calling the people to whom the reading pertained, so whether you were able to make contact or not might force you to skip a few, but so long as you do accurately write down what you did find out about each reading without skipping any that didn’t live up to expectations, that should be satisfactory.

Herein lies a big problem, people’s identities are protected. Supposing if I could not convince those with the resources to find the people and I could hack my way into their system, I will find that there are probably only a handful of people still alive to whom had a reading, so I will have to skip probably nearly all of them!

Under scientific scrutiny the readings are useless and always were and always be but yet some scientists subscribe to this esoteric wisdom.

I have the readings on cd-rom, but have chosen a ‘quote’ by random from the daily emails I get. I would prefer not to print the quote for obvious reasons, but in the interest of science, I have to not disregard it, like so many scientists do or would, so here it is:

I think I need to start a new thread, my defense of Edgar is not a good one, his wisdom will always be confined to a minority especially with the way the Association for Research and Enlightenment is run!

There is a religious overtone to the readings but as far as I can tell things like gambling:

and sex outside of marriage are excepted:

and many other things, Edgar Cayce was a stict Christian, if he was conscious of the readings he was doing would he not condemn such practices? In Thomas Sugrue’s book, ‘There is a River’ it says that Edgar himself did not actually believe the content of his ‘readings’ regarding the content of re-incarnation because it went against the Bible, so if he cannot believe some things then it’s fair enough other people do not!

I see that the point of most posts is to keep them concise so I apologise for not doing that, I will in future. Going to count some sheep now. Godbless.

That might be whoosh material, but the “new” president won’t actually take office until January, 2009. Prior to that he’ll be the President-Elect.

I can imagine a President-Elect revealing a mighty secret, though, like “I’m actually only 34 years old!” thus disqualifying himself and turning the office over to his Vice-President-Elect, Hillary Clinton.

Anyway, the point of a prediction is to think big. Stephen King made that point in The Dead Zone.

Gives more wiggle room. Since there wouldn’t be a new president, you could say that anyone alive who would eventually become a president would count at that point.

or perhaps the old president has decided to declare marshal law and HE WILL BE the new president! shudder

(Q) Would the fulfillment of the entity’s vision, that he become President of the United States of America, help in accomplishing his greatest service to humanity?

(A) This we do not find, either in keeping with the entity’s activities in the earth or other than as a dream of egotism in the entity through EXPERIENCES in the earth; but that the entity gave counsel with those in authority for the greater good of the forgotten man, and for him that has been neglected in the national or international associations would he GREATER fulfil that purpose, that help, that aid the entity in this experience may give.

E.C Reading 1265-2

translate please?

It’s like Ancient Greek to me too, but after a few drinks I can usually make sense of it.

“Any choice made by an individual is to be worked at.”

Edgar Cayce Reading 930-2

I think this a major problem with Cayce generally - his vague readings tend to either be incomprehensible osteopathic/homeopathic pseudoscience or boil down to simple homilies that don’t need psychic abilities to think up.

I’ve got a degree in philosophy and I have no problem understanding ancient greek philosophy including the pre-socratics. I took another degree in science in which physics, biology and math were necessity. But my powers of understanding aren’t satisfactory when it comes to this.
A few shots of beam might help. It’s been know to before. :wink:

Wow. You don’t believe in Sai Baba anymore and you perhaps drink a bit. You’re growing on me.

“Ya’ know, Louie, I’ve got the feeling this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.”

Guy, there is no such thing as magic. Sweet jeebus.

No, there isn’t. What there is, or may be, is nature that we don’t yet understand.

What Cayce did, though, is already pretty explainable by nature we do understand.