Just a few questions on the safety of traveling by air that search engines haven’t been able to answer for me. Any and all help is gratefully appreciated and will be exchanged for copious amounts of beer should we ever meet up at a Dopefest.
If I fly only twice this year, what are my chances of dying in a plane crash?
How many plane crashes are there annually in the world?
What is the most unsafe airline in the world (ie. Which airline has had the most plane crashes that have resulted in 1 or more fatalities?)
Approximately, What are one’s chances of survival if a plane crashes in the ocean if one manages to don the lifejacket in time and survive the crash uninjured? Assume that this person doesn’t know how to swim.
Following that tangent, how good is a lifejacket at keeping you afloat if you can’t swim?
Is it true that oxygen masks on planes are only there to get you high so you don’t panic when the plane crashes? If so, do they actually work?
That’s about all of them. If I think of any more I’ll post them here. Many thanks in advance for anyone gracious enough to supply me with some info.
I have always wondered this myself - does anybody really survive a crash into the ocean? It seems the plane would break up when it hit the water, forget the inflatable raft/ramp and taking your heels off.
I’ve never used one of the inflatable airline ones, but the ones I have used are quite good at it. But good lord, learn to swim. A plane crash is the last place you’ll probably need it, but there’s a whole lot of water out there to drown in, you know. Plus, it’s great exercise.
These depend on what type of planes you fly. If you are talking commercial airliners in the West, your chances of dying in a crash are extremely small. I believe 2000 (or 2002) had no airline fatalities at all. Smaller commuter planes have a worse record, and private planes have worse still. The most common statistic I’ve heard repeated (no cite) is that you are still more likely to die while driving to the airport.
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Most people in the know will tell you that the chance of an airline successfully landing on water without completely breaking up is minimal, and that it would likely sink rather quickly. (Again, no cite, sorry) But there was a case of a plane on the coast of Africa that ran out of fuel and was refused permission to land. It attempted an out-of-fuel ocean landing just off the beach. While it sort of flipped during the process, there were many survivors who were helped to shore by the beach-goers. It was all caught on film, and is quite spectacular footage.
I would imaging they work just fine at keeping you afloat. Lifejacket technology isn’t rocket science, it’s not hard to make one that works just fine.
Never heard this one. Why would they want to do that? Besides, they are used for loss of cabin pressure, an uncommon but not unheard of occurance. You think the airlines are going to perform uncontrolled medication of passengers?! Just oxygen.
That was actually an Ethiopian Airways jet that was hijacked by four men who demanded that it be flown to Australia. While that is in the range of the 767, the plane was fueled only for a short flight. The hijakers either didn’t care or didn’t beleive that, and the plane ultimatly crashed into the sea.
There was another incident that I’ve read about, listed in a book called “Air Disasters” about an ONA jet that ran out of fuel while flying to the Carabian in a storm. The pilots made a successful landing of the jet and most of the passengers and crew survived the evacuation. At the time the book was written, it was considered the only successful ditching of a commercial jet aircraft into open seas. Even still, 1/3 of the passengers were killed.
No. The pilots will be getting their oxygen from the same onboard source, and I am sure the airline would much rather have them trying to save the plane than giggling at the rapidly approaching ground.
First off, the thing about oxygen masks being there to get you high isn’t true- its from Fight Club (never saw it anywhere earlier)… but if the aircraft does lose cabin pressure you will probably be on the ground before oxygen deprivation is really an issue. (Try opening a car window- just one- at 120 mph… now imagine doing it at 500).
Lifejackets are slightly different. Originally, passenger aircraft were slow enough that a water landing where the plane didn’t break up was much more likely. Modern airliners are next to impossible to land safely on water- at high speed, landing a 747 on water would be essentially the same as landing it without wheels on concrete- and at low enough speed the aircraft will almost certainly stall and end up nosing down into the water anyway.
In the history of modern commercial aviation no life has ever been saved by lifejackets- they are simply a holdover from slower days.
Having said all that though, you are still twice as likely to die at any given time on the ground as you are in a plane. A few things weigh unfairly here- for example, when was the last time you saw a person on life support in seat 22E? Still, I’d rather be up in the air.
Are you saying that loss of cabin pressure would result in you being sucked out of the aircraft? If so, then that’s not really correct, normally a loss of cabin pressure would be caused by a faulty pressurization system and unless it happened very rapidly, likely no one would notice until the oxygen masks dropped in front of them.
This may be from the days of slower airliners, but 20-30 years ago a Japan Air Lines craft landed in San Francisco Bay by mistake, and got its photograph printed right across the newspaper, margin-to-margin by maybe 3 column inches tall. It looked cool, floating on the bay with no obvious damage.
If you’re talking commercial airlines, particularly those of modern, industrialized nations, you’re a heck of a lot more likely to die in your car than on the plane. Last I heard, both Quantas and Southwest have never had a fatality.
Now, small general aviation planes are a different matter… but even there your odds of getting hurt are still pretty low if you only ride twice.
You were talking about commercial airlines, weren’t you? Safest form of transportation, it’s true.
Again, are you speaking of commercial airlines? Very few - prior to Sept 11 we had an 18 month period where no commercial airline crashed anywhere in the world. So some years the answer is…zero. More typically, one or two world-wide. It’s not at all unusual for airlines of the United States/ Europe/Australia/Japan to have fatality-free years.
You know, most airlines like that don’t stay in business very long… but I think it was Aeroflot under the Soviets that had a bad reputation. Various African airlines have had problems. Needless to say, the “winner” of that contest isn’t eager to advertise the fact.
The hard part is surviving the crash.
There are so many variables at work here I’m not sure you can quantify that with a hard answer. Crashing into the North Atlantic, the temperature of the water alone can kill you - in the equitorial south Pacific the water is warm enough to avoid dangerous chilling. Then there’s the size of the plane, how it lands, whether or not there’s fire…
However, if you can’t swim and you ARE suddenly plopped down in the open ocean then a life jacket becomes a necessary piece of equipment.
Excellent. People have, when necessary, floated for several days with the assistance of a life jacket.
I have never heard of this before… No, it’s real oxygen. If the plane depressurizes at 35,000 feet there’s not enough air to breathe and you’ll need the boost from the little mask.
There is nothing to prevent the passengers from panicing other than smooth-talking flight attendents and stunned disbelief that the crisis is really happening. Actually, people usually don’t panic - scared, yes, but in post-accident reports folks frequently mention how quite and calm everyone appeared. Scared? Sure - but not running up and down the aisles screaming in terror.
It’s probably just a UL, but I heard somewhere (Fight Club?), that life jackets, nowadays, are only there so the crash site will be easier to find. All those little yellow or orange plastic things floating around…
Wasn’t there a thread or column about safety in planes vs. cars not too long ago. From memory:
Number of deaths per passanger per million traveled miles (or some such) is extremely low for airlines. Not strange, though, since almost all plane rides are longer trips, where you wouldn’t want to use a car or other public transportation. However, if we talk about # of deaths in connection to # of trips being made, without weighing in distance traveled, then planes aren’t all that safe. The amount of cars, and the amount of trips made in cars in a single day is so damned large, the number of accidents is not surprising. If there were as many flights a day, the number of airline accidents would be much higher.
Close, but there was nobody talking to us for a good five minutes when they dropped O[sub]2[/sub] masks on a flight out of Seattle… we was on our owns until we’d finished the drop to 10,000 feet. Stunned disbelief seemed to get the job done. And the weird idea that this was some kind of twisted test to find out who’s been listening to the safety lecture.
And no, the oxygen was not drugged. That had to wait until we got back to the airport and I got myself a double martini.
The oxygen masks are there to give passengers…oxygen. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Now, there are limitations to the system…it is not a pressure-demand system, and it mixes ambient air with the flow of oxygen. This means that if the plane depressurizes at a high altitude (say 33,000 ft or higher) the partial pressure of oxygen that you will be getting through the mask will be almost zero…not quite zero, but almost. It will keep you alive until you can descend to a habitable altitude. By mixing ambient air with the oxygen, you get smoke and fumes into your system if there is a fire onboard. Still, it’s better than NO oxygen.
The masks we have up front are much bulkier, but provide positive pressure at high-altitudes and deliver 100% oxygen. We also have goggles to prevent smoke from entering our eyes. And every time we go to the simulator we practice a rapid-depressurization or onboard fire. This entails donning the mask and goggles, executing an emergency descent and then flying an approach to minimums wearing the goggles.
As to life vests…ummmm, who would want to fly overwater without them? Even the simplest flotation device can extend your survivability tremendously once you’re in the water. Yes, they are colored yellow or bright orange to aid in spotting. Hopefully they will help the rescue helicopter spot YOU bobbing along in a huge blue ocean. That’s why the rafts are also yellow (for those of you unfamiliar with the rafts carried aboard airplanes, remember Cast Away). It’s an added safety precaution. And even if they had never saved anyone up until this point, they still COULD save you or me, and that makes them worth carrying.
As for the safety of flying…I obviously think it’s safe. Then again, I might be biased!
I have no cite for this, but as I understand it, the high density of O2 coming from the masks gives you a calm, clarity of mind. There are “oxygen bars” that do just this. Anyways, and this is only secondhand knowledge, it would make sense for the oxygen to not exactly get someone high, but just calm them and allow them to think clearly.
But at the same note, when people panic and hyperventilate, they get too much oxygen, so I’ll let another poster give us the answers on that.
I wrote up something similar for the straight dope Teemings online magazine, called Safety. I wrote it, and it was slated for the publication, when 9/11 occurred.
Basically, it oversimplifies things, but it uses general figures to point out that on a per hour basis, air travel and auto travel are about as dangerous. So, why would you want to subject yourself to a twenty hour auto trip instead of a two hour airline trip? Because everyday life is even more dangerous! The plane just puts you back in that dangerous environment faster.
One time, we were flying back to Denver from New York, stopped in Atlanta. While we were flying the first leg, a tremendous crash occurred in Denver. TV crews were at our gate as we disembarked, trying to ellicit an emotional response. Some people decided to not continue on, most did. A guy under some sort of treatment in first class had a seizure and we had to make an emergency landing at Kansas City, let him off, and then continue to Denver. It looked like there were still small fires along the runway. I imagine some people were redlining their stress meters.
Skogcat (nice name btw) I wasn’t saying you’d be sucked out, but that the plane would have been ditched or landed before the body was significantly deprived of oxygen.
According to www.totaloxygen.com , which is an oxygen bar, 90-95% oxygen “can provide an uplifting, energetic, refreshing and positive experience. It is not extremely overwhelming due to regulations, but can be very noticeable,” They go on to say that you need a license to dispense 100 percent oxygen. I don’t know how much an airplane dispenses, but if they did 100 percent, I think getting “high” may be an exaggeration, but not completely out of the question. I think Fight Club’s quote has merit.
PetW , read my earlier post. The passenger oxygen masks deliver oxygen, but it is diluted with ambient air. This provides nothing near 100% oxygen. The oxygen masks are a piece of survival equipment, not “get high” equipment.
Considering the chaos involved anytime masks actually drop in an airliner, the “uplifting, positive” experience of an oxygen bar would be negated. The oxygen is there for survival purposes only: any psychological benefits are an added bonus.
If anything, the act of putting on a mask and “doing something” provides a calming effect to passengers…regardless of what is coming out of the mask. It’s a mode of control in an otherwise uncontrollable situation. This alone will make people calm down.
