theirs not theres
That’s nothing to do with what I was talking about there. I don’t want to make too much of this–most iterations of suburbia have numerous larger problems–but… I was talking about whether the outdoor space–the streetscape, the public space–works as a place. Outdoor spaces that feel like places will be used more, which makes them feel still more like places.
Here is a map of a street plan that’s almost all positive space. That is, the outdoor spaces between buildings have shape, defined by the surrounding buildings. At almost any point walking the streets (white) of this neighborhood, you’ll be in a recognizable place, enclosed for most of its sides by building faces. It’s easy to imagine all kinds of activities filling these streets and plazas.
Here is a photo of a suburban street corner. That odd blob of grass in the middle of the image–what is it? Well, it seems to be the “front yard” of that house, but you can’t imagine anyone doing anything there. It’s floating out there, only vaguely attached to its house. Children playing there would be uncomfortably exposed to traffic. Now look across the street, at the rectangle of grass bordered by a fence, the backs of two houses, and the sidewalk. That bit is also a careless leftover, not the product of deliberate design decisions. But you can imagine children playing there. (It’s not a perfect positive space–the sidewalk alone is a weak border; a building face directly across the street without a big setback would work better.)
Further explanation of this design principle can be found in A Pattern Language: Towns, Buildings, Construction and Urban Design Compendium.
If suburbs were really designed for children, that would be an entirely different thing. Can a child walk or bicycle to school, to a library, to a park, to a store, to friends’ homes? Or must he depend on a parent driving him to most of these?
And malls, seriously? A mall is just a sterilized, roofed city shopping street, isolated from its surroundings by acres of parking. Have you ever tried walking to a major suburban mall? They’re not made to tie in with their surroundings. They’re not really part of any neighborhood, or of anything but themselves.
hears not heres wears not wheres
..whats? 
Cursed grammar mistake after the edit window closed.
oh!:smack:
I do think there are different ideas of what comprises a “suburb” floating around in this thread. My own points of reference are the sprawling new developments that surround Atlanta.
One aspect of these developments not yet mentioned is that they put a huge strain on water resources. The expansive lawns require a lot of water, the swimming pools likewise (with a lot of water getting lost to evaporation). At least in the Atlanta area, a lot of these developments were built with septic systems rather than being built on sewer lines. This means water gets drawn out of local river systems, and then rather than being recycled back into the river system gets dumped into the ground.
Water is somewhat surprisingly a scarce commodity in Atlanta, the city not being located on a major river. Instead it depends on the relatively small Chattahoochee River for its water. That river has become the subject of a lot of litigation among Georgia, Alabama and Florida over the past couple of decades as Atlanta sucks more and more water from the system.
I assume the situation may be even more dire in more arid Western areas. I can’t imagine how cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas, which have experienced so much sprawl in the past few years, manage their water supplies.
My big issue is just the sameness of it all. I grew up in a brand new neighborhood (ours was 3rd house built), but the homes there were not all built by the same builder and therefore were definitely not one of 5 different styles. I drive to Chicago and the new McMansions that back up on the freeway all look the same. It would drive me nuts if 15 of my neighbors had the exact same house as I. It would also drive me nuts if 15 of my neighbors drove the same car.
Somebody above denied race had anything to do with white people moving into the suburbs. Trust me, at least in this part of the country it does. I have come accross numerous people who admit this is why they moved into the next neighboring town/suburb. I have come accross numerous people who look down upon me w/ pity that I still live in the city. I know people who won’t come into town for a festival because of race. I know people who send their kids to private school because of race. It’s alive and well here. One other reason I hate the surburbs, because I don’t respect some of the people that left town.
I could have joined them the last time I moved, but one reason I didn’t is that I couldn’t visualize having a lot in common with some of those folks. I figured I’d have an easier time fitting in w/ the people who still lived in the city. Yeah, I’m probably stereotyping too, but I know it happens. Have no idea how often, but often enough to know that I don’t want to be a part of it.
There isn’t much true suburbia around me. There are little pockets of developments here and there, but mostly your either in the city (which, I suppose, by big city standards is pretty suburban on its own) or your in the sticks. You just go from city to small town to trees around here.
But a few years ago I was visiting my parents where they were renting a house in a gated community in Florida. It was like visiting Stepford. I was there for 5 days and I got lost every time I tried to find my way around. There were no distinguishing marks to anything. You had to go by … “turn left at the house that’s slightly darker than the rest, next to the one that looks like the pool in back is a little bigger than the others …”
Steve Martin did a joke about McDonalds, how they just have one machine out back where they pump out the food: “splort – quarter pounder – splort – fries – splort – vanilla shake – splort – Styrofoam box”.
Splort – grey stucco house – splort – beige stucco house – splort – tan stucco house – splort.
This encompasses my entire problem with suburbs, they are designed around the use of the infernal internal combustion engine. Nothing is within walking distance of the homes, and everything that is built is set far back from the streets in order to accommodate parking.
The other issue I have with that is that when suburbanites decide that they want transportation into the city center so that they don’t have to drive (even though they chose to move 30+ minutes away from where work is) they get park and ride lots, dedicated commuter train and bus lines and the like that have limited, if any, positive effect on the urban hub. Meanwhile inner city urban areas have been facing increasing public transit cuts for years. It’s entirely backwards.
That song pops into my head at least a half-dozen times every summer, as I mow the lawn of my exurban 1/3 acre.
I’d say one source of dislike of the suburbs is that a lot of people who’d really rather live in a city are stuck in the suburbs because the parts of most cities that are reasonably safe are also extremely expensive.
A lot of people really like walkable downtowns with a lot of shops close together and stuff. And the reason there aren’t more such places isn’t that people would rather live in the suburbs, although it’s true that many do. The reason is that, as bloggers such as Atrios, Matt Yglesias, and Ryan Avent frequently point out, you can’t build downtowns like that anymore even if developers wanted to. Parking requirements push shops too far apart, and height limitations deny ‘new downtowns’ the critical mass of people needed to keep those shops in business.
Oddly, this is an instance of interfering governmental regulation that libertarians are rather quiet about. (OK, not so oddly really.)
All the standard criticism of the suburbs were in place over a half century ago: the monoculture, social alienation (“cocooning”), gasoline-dependence, etc.
What’s strange was when baby-boomer conservatism came to it’s era, in synch with all that easy credit from China. Then the suburbs went “Hell Yes!” People bought backyard grill big enough to feed parties their parents would have had catered. Countertops had to be of stone quarried thousands of miles away.
And while single-family units had two SUV’s, an RV, hobby Harleys, etc., out where single family farms are trying to not be swallowed by factory farms, neighbors are sharing tractors and combines.
The factory in suburban Atlanta where I work gets zero consideration from the city government. The fact that we process materials and create wealth means nothing: the huge Mall of Georgia, however, can write their own tax and utilities bill.
It’s the expectation that this artificial life support can be maintained indefinitely. We want a nice place were we can spend money that comes from someplace else. And all of America’s political power is best used to this, above all other ends.
I don’t know that the criticism that all the houses look the same can be really valid. A lot of urban neighborhoods were built in the same fashion. I’ve noticed that the rowhouses where I lived tend to have been built in clumps. Over time, people have done things to them which have changed the appearance somewhat.
I grew up in a suburb where even though there was a strip mall less than two miles away, you couldn’t walk there because there were no sidewalks to get there and you had to cross a busy street with no crosswalks to get there. This is the type of suburb that I dislike although that is just my opinion.
I don’t think that the critique that the suburbs are full of scared white people who want to get away from the minorities is no longer valid. There are suburbs here that are minority majority in this area and areas in the city that majority white.
From my experience, suburbia is filled with people from poor backgrounds who have sort of made good. This makes them so paranoid and insecure about their status that they clamp down hard on anything that might cause embarrassment or negative attention. Some of the kids turn into sheltered robots and end up hating surburbia for the rest of their lives because of this.
I grew up in a suburb of San Diego. Technically, it was part of the city, but in geography and character it was physically separate. It had the best aspects of a small town (small population, close community, unique culture, illusion of safety) and a city (access to resources, diverse population, economy). I liked it a lot. Since then, I’ve lived in urban areas. Some difference I’ve noted:
More diversity in cities. Yes, we had people from all over the world, but they were all middle class, and rarely encountering truly poor or rich people at home affected our ideas and politics. Equally, at least initially, there was one Italian restaurant, two Chinese, one deli, two schools (elementary & high school) and two grocery stores; two or three fast-food restaurants, but even McDonald’s was a drive. (Not that I felt the lack, just to paint a picture.) Higher density brings more choice.
Pre-car, as others have said, getting places was a chore. Walk or bike; the bus stop was a mile away and only came rarely, so what was the point? As a kid in good weather, no problem, but I’d hate to rely on a car that much now.
There was more “green” (wild) space, but that has changed. I’m living in a greener city in a different climate, and there’s more vegetation and wildlife in urban areas here than I ever encountered growing up.
The suburbs had more space, but I think in our culture we like space we can wall off and claim. Yards are so… public. I’ve noticed that modern houses have tiny front yards and big honking wall-off-able backyards. I think people find the notion of sharing their space creepy, and in a city you likely have no yard. I like the suburban yards, but I guess others don’t.
I do think jealousy is a part of it, and competition: if we’re Democrats, we hate Republicans because they’re on the other team, and vice versa. If we’re urbanites, we hate suburbanites for the same reason. I’m not claiming it’s all knee-jerk in either case, but I think it’s a factor.
In the interest of full disclosure, I grew up in the kinds of suburbs that the OP is thinking of. (Which is why “Pleasant Valley Sunday” resonates.)
Keep in mind that the song dates from the 1960s, when having more than one TV set in the house meant you had money (or were in serious hock). The song is also about the superficiality of suburban life. It’s not so much about doing, it’s about being seen doing it. For example, men join clubs like the Masons and Rotary not because they care about the Masons or Rotary, but because they see it as being good for business and because their neighbors do and because they want their neighbors to see them at meetings. Women get active in the PTA because they want the other mothers to see them there because they want to be seen as good mothers. Your neighbors have to see you keep up with the landscaping, because if you don’t, you clearly don’t care about the neighborhood because you don’t care about property values. You may hate these things, but if your neighbors don’t see you doing them, you’re not a good neighbor.
If city life is about isolation and alienation, suburban life is about superficial community based on common geography, not genuine bonds.
I also disagree with that criticism. “Ticky-tacky! Splort!” Neighborhoods have been built to look pretty much the same for a long time–it’s less expensive that way. Over time, people put their personal marks on their homes and it becomes more individualized–I’ve watched it happening in my own neighborhood over the last 10 years.
Complaining about aesthetics is really complaining about the fact that people with diverse incomes are buying properties. Only the wealthy can afford to build a house that looks different. Ordinary people like the ones in my neighborhood–teachers, office people, farm workers, firefighters and whatnot–can only afford a stucco splort house. There’s nothing actually wrong with that.
I know exactly one guy who has joined the Masons. Everyone else thinks it’s quite a strange thing to do, but he loves it.
Explain to me how suburbs raise property values overall. Presumably the same number of people want to live somewhere. If there weren’t any suburbs, would’t that raise property values within the city, as the city densified?
[QUOTE=MsRobyn]
The song is also about the superficiality of suburban life. It’s not so much about doing, it’s about being seen doing it. For example, men join clubs like the Masons and Rotary not because they care about the Masons or Rotary, but because they see it as being good for business and because their neighbors do and because they want their neighbors to see them at meetings. Women get active in the PTA because they want the other mothers to see them there because they want to be seen as good mothers. Your neighbors have to see you keep up with the landscaping, because if you don’t, you clearly don’t care about the neighborhood because you don’t care about property values. You may hate these things, but if your neighbors don’t see you doing them, you’re not a good neighbor.
[/QUOTE]
How is any of this unique to suburbs?
That’s pretty close to how I define “suburb”. I know a lot of people think there are only big cities, suburbs and rural areas, but it’s not true. There are also small cities and towns, and the one thing that distinguishes suburbs from all of them in my mind is the inability for a child below driving age to get around on his or her own.
Cities and towns , big and small are generally walkable and may have some public transportation. In the downtown/shopping area,speed limits are generally lower than highway speed, and parked cars help keep the traffic speed slower. Even if a kid doesn’t live close enough to walk to the downtown , the streets are generally safe to bike there- whether it’s due to low traffic or low speed.
Rural areas don’t really have downtowns, and most people don’t live near stores and restaurants, but there’s often an intersection in what seems to be the middle of nowhere with a gas station/convenience store and a restaurant or two. It may be a long bike ride , and the speed limit may be the highway limit but there really isn’t any traffic.
Suburbs are the places where you find that it is impossible to get from Point A to Point B without using a wide ( 2-4 lanes in each direction) street with fairly heavy traffic at highway speed. Not really safe for a kid to bike on , and in some (maybe most ) cases, bicycles are not permitted .
New York City moms seem to be pretty good at that image stuff.
A good friend of mine has been the president of the PTO for the past two years. (Come to think of it, her husband is the lonely Mason above.) I can guarantee you that she didn’t take on that brutal job because she wanted to be seen as a good mom. I think she actually made quite a few enemies, since she refused to engage in politicking and always went for efficiency.
I guess we don’t actually live in suburbia, just a small city. Which happens to be the greatest place in CA, as far as I’m concerned.
Anyway, all I’m saying is, those are some pretty broad generalizations being thrown around, and just because someone lives in a neighborhood where the houses look similar doesn’t make one a Stepford Wife. :rolleyes: