whats with the Irish and English?

In My Humble Opinion
41

To address the OP, I’ve never experienced any anti-English attitudes from Irish people (ribbing about sport doesn’t count). However, I have experienced an anti-English attitude, some of it quite unpleasant, from Welsh people and especially from Scots. I’ve also noticed anti-Irish attitudes from English people including someone whose surname was O’Connor :rolleyes:

A little study of the history of Britain and Ireland will explain why political antipathy still exists, but the fact that we don’t hate each other on a personal level is one of the reasons why I’m optimistic about those problems being resolved eventually.

42

and the cite that he called him an English Wanker being Mick McCarthy (via Cathal Carr).

43

I feel as though I ought to apologise for turning this into a pointless argument about Roy Keane’s autobiography. It was supposed to be a harmless joke, so let’s not go overboard eh?

44

Actually my cite is not even that definitive: popbitch! However, that doesn’t make the Keane/Dunphy one less questionable.

Anyway, sorry, everton’s right. I’ll shut up now.

45

i think Gladstone summed it up pretty well - the main problem between England and Ireland has always been that:

“the English can never remember whilst the Irish can never forget”

(that quote is from memory by the way - so may not be spot on correct)

as has been pointed out in other posts - its not a black and white issue, which makes it very difficult to explain to people who haven’t witnessed it (either from the english or irish perspectives) first hand.

with regards to the questions asked in a couple of posts above:

We have been rivals with france ever since the Norman invasion (1066) this left William of Normandy (technically a subject of the French king) as King of England (in which role he was a european monarch in his own right) and its all been down hill from there - we’ve been at war with them on and off for hundreds of years although its pretty much been declared a draw now!

A lot of Americans seem to conviently forget that one of the major factors behind the American victory in the War of Independence was due to the assistance of the French who provided military assistance and whose navy roundly trounced us at sea - preventing the resupplying of British troops in America.

The last (major) conflict between us ended with the battle of Waterloo when the Duke of Wellington and a British Army (with some timely Prussian support) defeated Napoleon and the French.

The rivallry still exists but its less serious now - generally manifesting itself on the football pitch.

There are lapses however - the French were not happy when it was decided that the channel tunnel rail link on our side of the channel would terminate at a station called “Waterloo” and currently many Brits are not happy about the French refusal to eat our Beef…

It was only really in the twentieth century that the rivallry with Germany started - largelly because they began to emerge as serious Imperial rivals. Two World Wars obviously didn’t help relations (where we ironically fought alongside the french), but again the rivalry is now largely limited to confrontations on the football pitch.

To be honest we Brits have been at war with pretty much everyone at some point - so there are a hell of a lot of people out there who don’t like us - although recently America seems to be drawing the kind of flack that is normally reserved for us!

on a final note, whilst france is our longest rival our longest ally is…

Portugal!

46

My dear Boy

You are quite Right and Totally Wrong.

The Bully boys who have been responsible for the Terrorism in and from Northern Ireland have lost. The People ( Poor Smucks who have finally figured out that they have power ) are showing the bully boys the door. Like most unwelcome guests that don’t take the hint, but they are leaving!!!

There are routine problems with Guys like “Mad Dog” and his son “Mad Pup” where the idiot sectarian Terrorist father shoots his own son in the kneecaps for being a less than perfect terrorist thug! This is the reality of one family in Northern Ireland and not the whole of the United Kingdom!

With examples like this – who needs terrorists anymore.

However, as with all things it takes time for people to take action that brings results. Many mistake the flying of sectarian flags and marching bands with terror and terrorism. In Northern Ireland some 99% + of the population do not support Terror, terrorism or even sectarianism in any way.

I know This – I’M IN NORTHERN IRELAND and IRISH. Pity some folks prefer the hyperbole to the reality and such is the way of the world that the hyperbole goes on and reality is ignored. If y6ou need to take a class such as Northern Ireland 101, why not have a look at this link – one of the most biased and terribly sectarian organisations of the Planet – the British Broadcasting Corporation AKA The BBC!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/northern_ireland/understanding/default.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/northern_ireland/2001/ni_deadlock/default.stm

I have had to deal with the St Paddy’s day Crocodile Tear American Irish patriots personally. I stood up in a Ball Room in Philadelphia in 1984 and denounced all those present for giving money to terrorists! I was disgusted to see $1000 bills being dropped into hats whilst millions starved in Africa!

I have seen the results of that money in Northern Ireland, In England and have had to run for my life as a result. Thank you all for teaching me how to run so fast from the bullets and bombs you paid for! Thank you for the years of terror and the security blanket than meant you could not get from one side of Belfast to the other without being searched – you could not even get into a shop to buy a newspaper without a body search! And then we hear of folks bitching about The USA Federal Government stopping Kerb Side Check IN!

When it comes to the history of Ireland and England along with Wales, Scotland, The Isle of man, the Channel islands, Gibraltar, the Falklands and whole loads of other places – it is all to easy to take the narrow view from the outside. It is far harder, as so many are now realising, to look out from the inside to the rest of the world and see it just as it is and not through the rose tinted Glass of CNN and the US media in general.
Hope this helps

From a well informed, unreformed, unrepentant and highly observant Irish Man – Irish national in the United Kingdom of Great Britain!

The BloomingPouf

47

My dear Boy

There has been political, social and economic warfare for many Millennia. It is recorded in all cultures from ancient China to Modern day North America.

The tradition of viewing the Irish as Stupid goes back to the Victorians and their demonising of the Irish as unfit to Rule themselves – there by attempting to legitimate the continued control of Ireland from the Westminster Parliament and Government. It was a simple and very public demonising of a whole country so that those with wealth invested in the country could gain support from the military and government to keep it.

The Potato famine in Ireland resulted in the deaths of Millions, yet Ireland was exporting more food than it needed to feed it’s starving “Catholic” Population. http://www.people.virginia.edu/~eas5e/Irish/Famine.html

Mind you then same applies to the Mexicans and other ethnic groups in other countries. It is easy politics and social engineering to demonise another group and use the results to control the masses.

My Grand Mother did have a thing about the English, but mainly because she witnessed the murder, flaying and nailing to a tree of a family member by the Black and tans. My Grand Father had a different view, but then again he ran the black and Tans out of Wexford City! http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/black-tans.htm

As with all things demonising the other guy due to his religion, ethnic origins, social standing, views, colour of skin…. The list is just about endless… is the foundation of social unrest and from there warfare in all it’s forms! A Guy called Ghandi did something about it in India and there was some Guys in The USA who had a hard time – A Dr King springs to mind!

The History of many cultures and cultural groups is littered with examples, Wounded knee springs to mind (Guess who this guy is http://www.ibiscom.com/images/knee05.gif ) as well as a few problems with slavery and even the British Navy shooting upon Washington (1812)!

What I find a bit shocking is the indifference to the deaths of half a million Marsh Arabs in Southern Iraq. It’s usually called Genocide and not supported or accepted by supposedly civilised countries. I have to wonder why so few governments have spoken out. They stopped a guy called Milosovich quick enough – it seems that Arabs and Europeans lives have different values. It wasn’t a religious question after all. Milosovich was into killing Moslems!

I know that it was an Irish man who blew the Gaff on the Concentration Camps…. And those were not the ones in Germany – they were the ones invented by the British Army in the Boer war on South Africa. http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/concentration-camps.html

Casus Belli is a mixed bag of tricks and justifications used by many a Politician and many a man after money, wealth and power to get his hearts desire over the lives and welfare of millions.

Mind you I suspect that the biggest reason the English demonised the Irish is because when they arrived they discovered a massive lack of petroleum reserves under Ireland – so ultimately the whole history was just a dress rehearsal for what we see on the world stage today – and the emigration of so many Irish men and women to America is the reason why the same role playing with the Arab world is coming to the fore today!