Really? What first-world countries are like the Congo? Name one First-World nation which could justly be described as having “… a malfunctioning or non-functioning system of criminal law and medical care, and … customs that strongly favour aggressors over victims”.
Where exactly have I claimed that “… all Western rapes are cosy date rapes”? 
Good for you.
I haven’t been raped. I have been falsely accused of rape. The first and last time I had sex was 09/11/06. I only remember it because I thought it was cool to lose my virginity on 9/11, stupid teenager thought. I was scared and nervous, hesitantly asking every step like if I can remove her blouse, bra, ect, all while she’s rolling her eyes at my timidity and urging me on. We don’t even get close to finishing as my sister just happened to come stomping down the stairs and barge in.
Next day I go to school and everyone hates me. I only save myself from an ass beating by pulling a blade and threatening to kill when confronted by a mob. Later on she tells the truth but by that point it doesn’t matter. We go to principal no one gets in trouble but she urges us to put our sex lives on hold.
You learn who your friends are, or rather, that you have no friends willing to stand by you under such circumstances. Haven’t had sexual activities since. A notarized form signed in triplicate isn’t enough. Video of the entire event and hours before and after isn’t enough. Nothing will make me trust anyone enough to fuck them ever again. Risk is too high, people are too cruel, nevermind drama and pregnancy and stds. I won’t even be alone with a female these days even in a public platonic setting there needs to be witnesses.
I know the stats, lots of females are raped, most of the perps aren’t accused, of those who are most aren’t tried and of those who are most aren’t convicted. I’d never trade what I went though for a rape, and I know similar ostracization goes on among the victims often too.
Still, if I was raped, I can keep it quiet and keep my life. Puts the choice of ostracization in the hands of the victims. Granted they’d still have the fear and trust issues, but I got those regardless.
You try going though all of high school as ‘that guy who raped that girl’. No matter how much she stood up for me after betraying me and fucking my life, doesn’t matter, NOW people choose to disbelieve her, because after all they already know the Truth. Why would she accuse me if it weren’t true, and why would she recant unless I threatened her?
It doesn’t have to be both to negate the premise. It is sufficient that there be customs that favour the aggressor - and honor killings, for one, are not confined to “third world” countries
You don’t have to say it “exactly” - when you reply with some misdirection about the third-world, you’re saying there’s no risk of injury or death in the West. I beg to differ.
Well, yes.
Some rape victims who failed to have their attacked prosecuted have then been charged with making false accusations. I suspect some of them have been jailed too.
Nah don’t think so. They aren’t rape victims, they’re rape liars.
From the article: charged or can be charged with perverting the court of justice
In short, they have irrefutable proof that the person is making shit up. This article isn’t about rape victims being jailed, it’s about feminist group complaining that women found of making false rape allegations shouldn’t face jail time, and should just get a slap on the wrist because other countries don’t do it yet. Considering men’s lives can be ruined because of false allegations up to and including suicide. I view it as a serious offence, and it’s time we start treating women like adults.
When you respond with an article about the Congo …
Huh? Are you somehow reading someone elses’ posts and attributing them to me?
I issue this challenge directly to you: please quote me actually saying “there’s no risk of injury or death in the West”.
I know you can’t, because if you read this thread, you will see I said the exact opposite of what you have claimed.
Note my answer in post 58, where I acknowledged that rape - in the West as elsewhere - “… carries with it the risk of STD transmission, pregnancy, and trauma to one’s genitalia. Plus psychological trauma.”.
Does that sound like I think rape is trivial to you? Maybe ask yourself why, to make a point, you have to beat the shit out of that straw-man.
It is a point you have made, but it is a stupid point. No reasonable person being asked this question would assume, as you did, that it was being asked about conditions in the Congo.
Ah, that would not be a good characterization of that article.
The point made in the article is that the UK prosecutes those alleged to have made false accusations of rape more harshly than other Western countries, not that the accusers have actually been “raped then jailed”.
The article may well be right, that too-vigorous prosecutorial decisions have a chilling effect on women comming forward with complaints. I know nothing about the topic of prosecutorial decision-making in the UK, so can’t say.
So a woman gets raped, you don’t think she has to endure constant abuse afterwards? People telling her, “you shouldn’t have been doing this, you shouldn’t have been wearing that, why were you hanging out there, you should have fought back, why were you drinking, you sent off the wrong signals, blah blah blah”. Her entire life gets put under a microscope, and if she’s anything other than a proper church-going virgin, she’s a slut who’s probably just trying to get revenge, or she gives it away any other time, or why would you want to ruin this nice young man’s life, you know it was all your fault. You chose to get drunk, you chose to go to this guy’s apartment, you chose to wear that outfit, etc. It’s all on you. YOU could’ve prevented it. She hears it constantly. HER reputation often gets ruined. Why do you think so many women decline to press charges?
Fuck that shit. I’m not saying that it’s not horrible to be falsely accused of rape, (or any other crime, for that matter), but the idea that it’s somehow worse?
Todd Akin is an ass and a nut.
The reason some lean to the notion that being falsely accused may in some cases be worse is not that a false accusation messes with one’s reputation in the community and leads to constant abuse, though it can, but that it can lead to years in jail, and designation as a sexual offender.
It is this risk that makes it a horrifying ordeal - the risk of being falsely accused and convicted.
…to highlight one part of a larger sentence. I didn’t think Arab executions, worldwide honor killings or HIV infections needed citing the way fistulas did. But I can cite those as well, if you like.
No, I’m reading what I quoted.
Didn’t sound like you think it’d deadly. And the tone there is very different from the later post.
Right, the one not taking the parochial view is the stupid point.
No, worldwide. Honor killings aren’t a big Congo thing, nor is government execution of rape victims as “adulterers” - so if you thought I was only talking about the Congo, you need to learn a bit more about the world, and life for people outside your bubble.
I can’t believe there are still people who actively defend the superiority of such a provincial viewpoint on an issue as global as rape.
I would contend that “Arab excecutions” are equally irrelevant.
HIV infections can occur anywhere.
Honour killings have a tiny presence in the West.
So you didn’t like my tone, and decided that was a good reason to simply make shit up about me? And not acknowledge, even after it was pointed out, that you were wrong?
Okay.
Again, this is a point, but a dumb one. The thread is in the form of a poll, so obviously it is highly “parochial”. :rolleyes:
What’s next: a poll about whether “the law favours the cops, true or false” featuring you pointing out police abuses in Bangladesh?
Which is why reporting a rape often turns out to be a huge mistake.
A person tries to do the right thing and keep a rapist off the street by reporting, but as thanks, police and society make sure that the rape was just the beginning of her suffering, punishing her at every turn.
The falsely-accused rapist has no option to just shut up and go on with their life. The rape victim absolutely should not have to choose this option to avoid a lifetime of torment from outside forces, but reality is what it is, and I’d prefer to have the choice than to have the more-damaging one picked for me.
…and not all rape victims live in the West. Kind of the point.
No, it’s that the tone of the second statement shows not one iota of the consideration of the first one. It is entirely dismissive of the possibility of death from rape, yet it is of very real concern for the vast majority of rape victims
Because I wasn’t wrong, and your continued defense of your parochial attitude is not changing my mind, either
It’s a poll on a moral question as well as a practical one, and I don’t see either of those calling for a parochial attitude.
Well, I frequently refer to American situations in threads like that, and also other countries. And yet I’m not a Yank. Why? Because I’m not provincial in my attitude and I realise this isn’t just an American board. So yes, unless such a thread was specifically about American law, I would point out shitty cop laws worldwide.
I happen to know people who were raped and also falsely acccused. A cousin “Jane” was raped by a stranger with a gun when she was 16 or 17. A friend “Bob” was accused by his friend either for remorse or revenge.
Bob was married at the time. He and a direct report and close friend, “Sally,” went out for drinks, one thing led to another and they spent the night at a hotel.
A couple of days later, Sally went to the police a filed a report. Bob’s wife left him, he got fired and the news went through the industry.
I don’t remember how it came about, but the case fell apart. Eventually, the charges were dropped, but Bob’s wife decided that she had enough and obtained a divorce. Bob did find another job in another industry.
Jane went through hell for years.
I don’t know how you decide which is “worse.” Both are bad, but Jane suffered much more accute trauma.
Both are equally done, IMO. Since damage has been done both reputation and dignity that cannot regain in a short period of time.
Being the victim would probably the worst.
Being accused seems horrible, you get hated by everyone, death threats, a smaller to no chance of getting a job but there is a chance that you will be proven as innocent and it might be over or at least not as bad as it used to be and being the victim will be in your memory for the rest of the life, it’s traumatizing.
So that’s best-case scenario for “accused”; worst-case is, what, spend the rest of your life behind bars, getting violently raped by cellmates of the knock-your-teeth-out variety until an untimely death? If I’m comparing the worst-case “accused” scenario to the worst-case “raped” scenario – well, I don’t like either of 'em.
And if I’m comparing the least-bad scenario for both – what’s that for rape, the kind where I’m pleasantly drinking with someone until I wake up in the morning with no memory of what happened? Yeah, I don’t like that either.
Geez, people really seem fixated on the prison rape thing…
Well, it’s the easiest comparison, isn’t it? The choice is get raped once, or roll the dice on getting raped a whole lot of times. I mean, sure, you’re also rolling the dice on losing your job, your freedom, your reputation, your money, your marriage, and everything else that may or may not be waiting for you if you manage to avoid getting stabbed to death in prison, but that’s apples-to-oranges; rape, that’s apples-to-apples.
Dice that are actually in your favour - so it’s definitely get raped, or a 1 in 20chance of being raped at all (in America, I must emphasize this :rolleyes:) And that’s not considering the probability of conviction or even going to trial from the accusation.
Versus (and I emphasize this again) the definite rape on the one side.