Ok, for about a month now, my “AntiLock” light on my '95 Monte Carlo has been on. Brakes still work, everything’s fine, I say. My dad disagrees. He pointed out a shaking of my steering wheel when I brake that I hadn’t even noticed, and that I still have to be paying attention to to even notice. Now he tells me that I need new brake pads and rotors. Wait, that costs money! I don’t have any! I don’t want to take my car to a brake place, and have them tell me it’s gonna be 200 dollars to fix it. So my questions are:
1: What will they tell me if I go to a brake place?
2: How much will it cost to fix it?
and 3: How much am I damaging my car by continuing to drive like this?
You might start by checking the Owner’s Manual to see what it says about the light being on.
It is only prudent to have any brake anomalies checked out. The probability of serious trouble might be low but the consequences in case it is serious can be a disaster. Chances are you’re going to have a repair bill.
Even though I am probably a way better mechanic than the guy at the brake place, I have no clue to either of your questions, because I cannot see your car. Perhaps if you held it up to the monitor, a little to the left, now higher.
Seriously, I have no clue as to the exact problems, they need to be checked by a professional to be 100% sure.
Now in general, a steering wheel vibration when braking is usually caused by warped rotors. It may also be caused by a bent wheel, or a warped hub caused by over tightening of the wheel lugs. Without some very accurate measurment equipment it is impossible to tell which.
This vibration is most likely NOT what is causing your ABS warning light to come on. The ABS warning light is telling you that there is an electronic problem somewhere in the ABS system. To find out where will require a scan tool to access the ABS control module and read the stored fault code.
I doubt very much that the vibration and the warning light are related.
Bottom line to get the straight dope, you will have to take the car in for a diagnosis.
My car (a Ford) had an intermittent problem with the antilock warning light coming on the first couple of years I had it. My mechanic investigated thoroughly and found no physical fault with the system, making it some sort of electrical issue, maybe a short. The brakes were tested and found to be functional; it was just the light, and it would have taken hours (and bookoo dollars) to find the short. Not very reassuring, because how would I know if a real problem developed? In any case, there’s an alternate explanation for you.
Re the vibrating steering wheel, in addition to Rick’s excellent list, another cause (and one that’s easy to check and fix) might be underinflated tires. Check your pressure. Also, when was the last time they were rotated?
Well, I rotated the tires about 2 months ago, and in the manual, it says that it means that the anti-lock brakes don’t work (but the regular ones do.) I suppose I’m just going to have to suck it up and take it in in a couple weeks (b/c that’s when I get paid.) If I do have to get the rotors and pads replaced, how much money am I looking at?
Right now, Midas is running a $90 per axle special for pads/shoes. Expect rotors (if needed) to be $100-150 each, depending on shop mark-up.
So, on the assumption your front rotors are warped (or worn to the point that they’re not “machinable”) and need replacing, you’re easily looking at a $400 job, before anyone even thinks about diagnosing the ABS light. And, that’s just for the front brakes.
Yes, brake parts and brake jobs are expensive. But so is body work and hospital bills.
The ABS light might be simply because of a burned fuse (unlikely), or a damaged wheel sensor.
If it is a damaged sensor, it might be a costly problem. Some (most?) cars have the ABS sensors integrated into the wheel hub, so you will need to change the whole hub.
AAAHH! I won’t even have ~ 400 dollars until I get my scholarship check in a few months, and I don’t want to wait until then. Bah!
So, I’m assuming it’s 100-150 for rotors per axle? I’m sorry, but I’m (obviously) uneducated when it comes to brakes, or cars in general.
How much do you think it would be to just go buy the parts and let a friend install them?
(My dad cautioned me about this, but seeing that he’s a miserly old man, he won’t touch the royal coffers to help with the car repair that he deems necessary. )
The rotors are made to a certain thickness. When they are turned, some of the metal is removed. Stamped on the rotor somewhere should be the minum thickness the rotor can be turned and still function safely.
There is minimum thickness makred on the rotor somewhere. This is the minimum safe thickness. The guys who designed the rotors took the time to figure this out. They know more about the brakes on your car than you do. Believe them.
If the rotors are too thin, then they do not have enough mass to handle the heat generated during a stop.
[QUOTE=chaoticdonkey]
Oh, I’ve been told that “rotors can only be turned so many times, and that mine have been turned too many times.” What does this mean?
[QUOTE]
As Rick said, too-thin rotors can’t handle the heat of braking. Two symptoms of this are rotor glazing and rotor warping. Believe me - warping is by far the preferable result, and you appear to have it - warped rotors will cause that wobble in the steering wheel when braking. Glazing (or burning) means the rotor’s surface has gotten so hot that it develops a sort of “heat polish” and becomes slick - when this happens, you don’t have much braking capacity.
That your rotors have been turned “too many times” would seem to indicate your car has been worked on by a somewhat shady or lazy mechanic / shop in the past. Brake shops use a specialized lathe to turn rotors, and if the rotor is marked with (for example) a .625" minimum thickness, they can legally go no thinner - if the rotor becomes .624" it’s scrap.
Oh, and why they turn rotors? You want the surfaces to be clean and smooth without scratches, (so the pads last longer and perform better) and you want the surfaces to be parallel to each other and perpendicular to the axle. (to prevent wobble)
Brake rotors, for some reason, are a lot cheaper than they used to be. On NPR’s Car Talk, they were talking $20 each. They said hardly anybody turns them anymore, they just replace them.
Furthermore, if you take your car to an Autozone store, and ask politely, they’ll hook up a diagnostic reader to your car (no charge,) and tell you exactly what the idiot light is too inarticulate to say.
Oh, by the way, those ads on late night TV that promise KILLER ABS? They’re not talking about Antilock Braking Systems. :smack:
Well, I looked on AutoZone, and they do indeed have rotors for 20 bucks. Thing is, they have a 3 month warranty. Does that mean I’d have to replace them in 3 months?
And another question (God, this thread should have died long ago :p): Will I run any real risk in having these home-installed?
Brakes and rotors are a very easy job to do at home and the discount parts stores have parts at good prices.
I have heard that the connectors from the hub can get dirty enough over the years to cause the light to come on. Personally, I am never that lucky, it would be the entire hub assembly for me.
A bad hub could explain the shake and the light. Jack up the car and see if you can detect ANY play by grabbing the tire at the 12 and 6 O’clock position and doing a push/pull on the tire.
Not that I would suggest anybody else tries it but just for my own curiosity, I would do a brake test when it was wet out. Just enough to see if the tires lock up - they should not, but with the light on, bet they do. I have also had an anti lock light come on after doing a parking brake 180* - While on the highway, I shifted to neutral, turned the key off for about seven seconds, turned it back on and the light was out
No. It’s probably to make the good quality rotors (with a one year or even lifetime warranty) look worth their higher price to the layman. The good ones are made of high-grade steel and carefully engineered to meet or exceed the car manufacturers specifications. These cheap $20 rotors are almost certainly made in China of inferior steel and less than optimal design details. Nevertheless, they will stop the car and probably hold up for tens of thousands of miles.
Let me suggest that you don’t have to know anything about cars to realize that the answer to this depends on WHO IS DOING THE WORK.
Of course, under certain circumstances (particularly if chaoticdonkey doesn’t get this fixed) he may end up with killer ABS.
No Chaoticdonkey it doesn’t mean they have to be replaced in 3 months, it just means if they fail after that, it’s your problem.
Will you run a real risk in home installing? Depends. I’ve done all my own brake work for a couple of decades now and I’ve never had anything fail. But, well, what can I say? I have a certain basic aptitude. Not everyone does. You’ll have to judge.
Nor are they talking about Anti-Blockier-System (German for anti-skid system – Google on the phrase, then hit the “translate this page” tags), which is what ABS actually stands for. American car manufacturers figured it was easier to make up new words for ABS (what you said – antilock braking system) than to explain that to folks.
This message cheerfully brought to you by the Who Cares :rolleyes: Trivia Service.
Well, it’s actually a friend of mine’s dad doing it. (ex-mechanic, so that’s why I’m trusting him with it.) My dad also used to be a mechanic, but I’m kind of going behind his back to not get it professionally done, as he demands, but I just don’t have the funds for that. I don’t even change my own oil :p, although I know how and I’ve done it before. Not worth the mess and effort for me, since I can pay like 3 bucks more to have it done.
