What's wrong with Russell Wilson?

The Game Room
41

Age, of course, but don’t underestimate the effect of Sean Payton needing to have his very own, hand-selected guy at the QB position as the reason for Wilson’s benching. As has been pointed out, Wilson has his strengths (he’s top 10 in passer rating, he’s only thrown 8 interceptions), but he’s holding the ball too long (4th most sacked QB). Still, even at his age, he’s a average NFL starter. Which in no way is good enough to overcome Sean Payton’s desire to get his own guy in there.

Whether it’s scheme fit, salary cap issues, inflated egos, or a combination of those three, Payton doesnt want Wilson as his QB, and the Broncos GM decided that what Payton wants, Payton gets.

42

That is cold.

43

This has been a very interesting thread and I thank everyone for their thoughts and contributions.

I note in reading further background that the Broncos didn’t just acquire Wilson from the Hawks, they immediately reupped him with a huge new contract before he’d even opened the season. Makes me think they were really desperate to solve the QB problem, that they were willing to bet on a pretty unlikely roll of some very big dice.

Now the whole situation seems to be pulling back the covers on a fairly dysfunctional franchise.

44

I’m not sure it’s dysfunctional. The Broncos GM (George Paton) took a swing and got Russell Wilson and paid him handsomely in 2022. What he didnt know then was that he’d be hiring Sean Payton the following year, and that Payton didnt want Wilson as his franchise QB. So Paton chose Payton over Wilson.

The one thing we can be absolutely sure of is that nothing that goes wrong for the Broncos is Sean Payton’s fault. Just ask him.

45

That is often quoted but we don’t know. Lynch fumbles were far from unknown, he even had a fumble from the one yard line in a play-off game (v Washington in 2012 season). Running the ball the Seahawks would have two chances as a TD (other than a turnovewr) a pass play gave us a third chance so as long as they avoided a turnover there was nothing wrong with going for a pass. I am not sure it was the right pass play (though I have hindsuight and far less expertise than any NFL HC or OC) but the execution was poor.
I do get the impression that Russ wants to be the game winner and the showman of the team, he makes some incredible plays but also gets sacked or intercepted trying to make such plays instead of throwing it away. I sometimes wonder whether if RW had got MVP for SB XLVIII he wouldn’t have felt the need to try and force the game winning pass.

46

On the previous play, with 1:06 on the clock, Lynch ran four yards from the five to the one-yard line. Everybody watching the game knew that Lynch would carry the ball at least 2 more times, and maybe 3 more times, to score the touchdown.

Except he didn’t.

47

If I remember correctly, the Seahawks only had one timeout left. I don’t know if there was time for three running plays. Throwing a pass (had it been incomplete) would have stopped the clock, then a running play, then use the timeout, then one more play. I think that was part of Carroll’s strategy in calling for the pass.

48

If Lynch can’t get that yard for you even if all 11 Patriots knew he’d be running it then you don’t deserve to win the Super Bowl.

49

Russell definitely has no problem handing off the ball. He just wants the wins. Now, there’s no question that at a certain point in his career he wanted to establish himself as a more complete passer (which he isn’t) but the thing he wants more than anything is to be the QB who is starter for the winning team. I never got the impression that he was caught up in how many yards he threw or TDs he was credited for. Especially in his third year as a pro. In his eye, when the team wins he wins because he’s the leader.

I think he forced the pass because that’s the sort of thing he does. He’ll do that at the end of the Super Bowl on the goal line or from his team’s 25 yard line in the first quarter of Game 3 of the season. Thats just how he plays.

50

Yeah, that’s the kind of thing most QBs are going to do.

He was a franchise QB at that point. They all have prima donna tendencies (some more than others - I’m looking at you Rodgers). He’s going to have the ego to think he can make plays that maybe should have been considered more carefully. Just like he had enough ego to think he could be a Drew Brees type of QB.

And that’s a good thing! You want your QB confident or even a little cocky.

But it’s pretty easy to overdo the confidence and cost your team or yourself. And easy to think maybe you’ve got a bit more juice in your arm or legs than you really have.

51

I also would like to say that one of Russell’s strengths is that he usually avoids taking risks with his passes (as far as throwing into coverage goes). His TD:Int ratio is very good. Thats part of how Pete Carroll coaches; turnovers are a special emphasis on both sides of the ball.

So to be fair to Russ, he gets away with the risky passes more often than not because he’s good. And he doesn’t do it that often. That’s not his problem; it’s hanging onto the ball too long and/or not throwing the ball away when he should.

Rather than turnovers, he’s more likely to get an incompletion or sack.

52

Yeah, that’s the other side of considering plays more carefully. Sometimes that means not throwing into triple coverage. And sometimes it’s admitting you’re not going to rescue a play, toss the ball out of bounds, and move on

53

Who was the executive vice president of football operations for that team out there in Denver, and then he was a special consultant reporting directly to George Paton? Some guy named Elway? I think his first name is John?

He might know a little about quarterbacks and how to coach them.

54

Just because you can do the job, doesn’t mean you can coach someone else.

55

Elway was never the coach. And that wasn’t the point.

The point is that Denver had somebody who clearly had some idea of what it was like to be a top level QB and what a good coach at that level should look like. Or at least a better idea of what those look like than any 8 year old

56

As has been pointed out, Elway was never the coach. But he was the GM in charge of building and maintaining a winning roster.

In his first draft (2011), he drafted no quarterbacks.

In 2012, he drafted QB Brock Osweiler in the second round. Osweiler played four seasons with the Broncos, starting 7 games. But Elway also signed Peyton Manning in 2012, who led them to two Super Bowls, winning one. Osweiler played behind Manning for 3 seasons, and finally started half of their games in 2015. That was his last season in Denver; he was in the league for four more seasons.

In 2013 and 2014, Elway drafted no quarterbacks. In 2015, he drafted Trevor Siemien in the 7th round. Siemien was their starting quarterback for most of the 2016 and 2017 seasons, compiling a record of 19-14. Siemien is still in the league; last year he was with the Jets.

In 2016, Elway drafted Paxton Lynch in the first round. Lynch was the backup to Siemien for two seasons, with a starting qb record of 5-4. Those were his only two seasons in the NFL.

In 2017, Elway drafted Chad Kelly in the 7th round. His NFL career consists of one incompletion for the Broncos in 2018.

In 2018, Elway drafted no quarterbacks.

In 2019, Elway picked Drew Lock in the second round. He played for the Broncos for 3 seasons, compiling a record of 9-14. He went to Seattle in the Russell Wilson trade.

In 2020, Denver drafted no quarterbacks.

So while Elway was never the quarterback coach, it’s painfully obvious that he also had no eye for talent, as all of his draft choices were failures of varying degrees. HIs one bright spot was signing Manning, so he does get major kudos for that move. But the draft? Not so much.

57

I know that well. I can tell you about my violin lessons from my childhood.

John Elway’s father, Jack Elway, was his coach in his young years, both officially and unofficially. I believe John Elway knows a thing or two about how to coach and lead QBs, though he clearly did not want to get into that line of work. After all he’d been through, and the wealth he had accumulated, coaching and personnel assessment was far from what he wanted to do after he’d won back-to-back Super Bowls (after losing 3 early in his career).

58

Elway having a discussion with Manning, saying, come here and help us win a Super Bowl carried a lot of weight with Manning. How many people could have that kind of discussion, with those credentials? You can count them on two hands. Most likely one hand.

Elway made it clear to Broncos management that he did NOT want to assess individuals’ talent levels, work ethics, and potentials for future success. He was the ‘executive vice president of football operations’, per wiki.

59

Also, per wiki, he was the ‘General manager/Executive VP of football operations’ from 2011-2020. He was the ‘President of Football Operations’ in 2021, and a ‘Consultant’ in 2022.

Unless the Broncos organization is different from the other 31, as GM he was primarily responsible for the draft.

60

Garrett Grayson. Ian Book. Sean Canfield. Tommy Stevens. It’s not like the guy who got Russel Wilson fired in Denver is great at drafting QBs either.