Sitting up in the balcony, looking down on hell, watching the evolutionists trying to figure out where satan came from.
I get to heaven, and meet an incarnation of the Goddess. She leads me to a nice warm field and a big grove of trees laden with delicious fruit, and there are lots of Pagans lying around naked or dancing in the sun. I look around, and what do you know… in the distance I see a bunch of enormous mansions, with faithful Muslims lying around being attended to by their houris. In the sky there are spirits of Christians flitting about in the sky with haloes.
And then in another direction there’s an enormous compound with twenty-foot cement walls. I ask the Lady what it is.
Oh, that’s for the fundamentalists, she says. They wouldn’t be happy if they knew they weren’t the only ones here.
my apologies again… for the slight hijack. i feel like a jerk for correcting you Boris B, but this is the SD. Buddhism and Hinduism both originated from Brahminism. They are two branches of the same tree. Similar beliefs, different methods of practicing and cultivating. Different names for the same things, and lots of overlapping. Nirvana is a state of mind, not of death. Death is usually referred to the physical body, the spiritual moves on, whether reincarnated in this world or another. Thats the belief in Buddhism.
matt_mcl, i like your version, but where are the Jews, Mormons, and dogs that go to heaven? i thought all dogs went to heaven, didn’t someone say that… where are the dogs?
To Boris B and Soulsling:
My extent of studying eastern religions/philosophies is very limited… (Think I read about them in the Tao of Physics)… my views on heaven (and earth for that matter) comes from spending many hours sitting on amazing mountain tops in Montana… I’m just trying to make sense of the the often cliched “senseless world”…
However maybe I should further investigate the relm of eastern mysticism…
No way, soulsling, there’s nothing jerky about correcting me. Mmm, jerky. You know more about Buddhism and Hinduism than I do and you’re dishing some of that out to us. That’s why the call it the Dope. If I thought you were a jerk, they’d be calling me the dope.
Anyway, nirvana and kharma and boddhisatva -ism (I don’t know how you’d render that as a single word, meaning, “the concept of becoming a boddhisatva”) are interesting concepts to me, and every now and then I think I’m getting an understanding of them, and then I learn something else that kind of blows me away.
Like the coexistence of Tantric (aka Lamaist?) philosophies in the same religion with ascetic philosophies. Wow. I have no problem understanding how opposite philosophies could tolerate and be informed by one another, but being part of the same religion … that’s really … notable.
Of course, extreme violence is a part of some Christian and Muslim philosophies, and total pacifism is a part of other Christian and Muslim philosophies. So I shouldn’t be too surprised that opposite can coexist. But I am surprised anyway. At least on some level. I guess I’ll just contemplate the unity of the trinity for a few hundred years, and get back to you.
Boris B, heres a couple of sites that might help you better understand what your’e looking for about Buddhism.Second site.
again, nirvana is a state of mind, a place we reach through meditation, which does not necessarily have to be sitting meditation, Karma is the essence of the yin and yang, we want less Karma in our lives, and more De. boddhisatvas are those that have reached a high level spiritually and are saving all beings. the Dharma, is the teaching, the understanding of the Buddhas. Buddha is only a representation of the Dharma.
the sites will explain better for you. like all religions, there are so many branches of each, with different practices for cultivation. the ancient Samurai adopted Buddhism into their daily lives, and rituals. So there is an example of violence existing in Buddhism, yet with peace in mind as the goal. It gets complicated, like all things can.
Well, it starts with a chance to get caught up on my reading. That should take a billion years or two…
But if you want philosophy, then I’d say that in Heaven, we exist in an eternal state: That is to say, we exist at all times, and perhaps all places, simultaneously. It wouldn’t get old, because time wouldn’t “pass” the way it does for mortals. This is pretty much the view presented by Boethius, although I formed most of my own view before reading him. He explains it better than I could; check out a copy of The Consolation of Philosophy sometime.
Just because it’s not as hot where you are doesn’t mean it’s heaven, Sneevil.
My concept of heaven is kind of like a huge city populated by everyone who ever lived on Earth - part genealogical fantasy, part historical fantasy. Seems to me like getting the sum total of human interaction in one place would produce some really fantastic stuff. Not sure how I’d handle the presence of such people as Hitler and Stalin, but I’d have to see about that once I got there.
Yeah, yeah, I am an atheist and a materialist, but we all have our dreams.
hope I’m doing this right…
not that I’m basing my concept of heaven or the afterlife on a movie, but…did anyone else see (late 80s/early 90s) a movie with Meryl Streep and Albert Brooks (I can’t remember the name of the movie)…anyway, after each dies, they meet in “limbo” where their lives are reviewed/examined. They discover that the purpose of life is to conquer your fears. Everyone is allowed a certain number of tries (i.e. lives) to progress. If you are sucessful, you then are allowed to pass on (pun intended) to a better place (not specified). If you are unsucessful at conquering your fears, I can’t recall if you get sent to the equivalent of Hell or if your soul simply disappears.
Seems like a pretty noble reason for living to me.
The traditional christian concept of a perfect heaven has always struck me as lacking challenge. I think I’d get a little bored eventually (after all we are talking eternity here.)
Quoth Sneevil:
Y’know, that might be almost as fun as watching the creationists try to explain where he came from…
As a brought-up Sothern Baptist I was told that heaven was a place that the streets were lined in gold, and the people you knew on earth, you didn’t recognize any longer. All the loved ones of you ‘living’ life washed away, and you were eternally blissful.
As a child I had visons, when my grandmother died, that heaven was all white and cloudy. Only old people were there ad they all resided in little beds that resembled bassinettes sleeping eternally.
Now I think of it as the dreams of my life coming true and my husband and I having our dream house. Having the corvette of my dreams and the truck of his. not having to go to work and just revel in each others company. Being able to do anything. Being able to fly winglessly into the sky. I would love that heaven…
My concept of heaven appears to be quite different from most who have posted. I look forward to heaven as a place/time/state in which the things that are wrong with me–spritually, emotionally, physically, etc., etc.–are fixed.
In particular, I will no longer want anything that is wrong, immoral, cruel, selfish. I will no longer envy another’s success, or be impatient, or lash out in unreasonable anger, or rejoice in seeing someone’s misfortunes. It will no longer be a struggle to do unto others as I would have them do unto me. I will no longer end a day with regrets for a kindness undone, or an unthoughtful or harsh word, or chastise myself for my lack of contentment with my material possessions. There will be no guilt or regret or sorrow based on my own stupidity or lack of self-control.
In heaven my desires will be totally in line with what is available and permissible. I hope this will be accomplished both by meeting my current desires (for health, physical comfort) and by raising my longing to a higher level of desire. There will in fact be pleasures forever more, though they may be very different from what I currently find pleasurable.
As I re-read this, it seems very self-centered, but consider that it will take a very great and loving God to accomplish such a change while still leaving me an identity and an awareness that I am still “me.”
Side note to prevent hijack to self-esteem, self-image discussion: I don’t have a bad self-concept or self-loathing. I like me and I want to be me in heaven. I have a reasonable view of myself as a typically less-that-perfect human being. But I also can envision a better version.
Part of how I see the afterlife is that it’s a waiting room. But not like you get at the dentist’s or the DMV. shudder Here, you’re actually allowed to enjoy yourself and relax. No worries about the pain to come, just lolling about, reading, watching your last incarnation, having a beer or 12 without worrying about hangovers later.
Being able to check up on loved ones that you’ve missed.
When you’re ready to move on, you get to take a look at all that you’ve learned in the past, and choose the setting for your next life. What do I need to learn next? How can I go about it with the maximum effect? Is there something that I’m missing in these other lives that I can have or do in this one?
I also believe that we make our own “heaven”. What you believe will be there, is there. For those who want the halo and wings, so be it. For those who immediately move on to the next incarnation, back to the womb for you! And for those who expect to go to “hell”, here’s a pair of heat-resistant shorts, have a nice trip. It’s all a personal perception, so there’s no single “heaven” at all. As the old saying goes “You are what you eat”. For me, it’s “You are what you believe”. Many paths, many destinations, much happiness to you all!
Wow! I would like your kind of heaven. I agree with a lot of what you say. I believe that when you get to heaven, you will almost be amused at how different things are… and chuckle at how wacked our value system’s are on this planet. Once we take our selves out the context of earth, and put ourselves in a place where fame and money, social class and possessions don’t matter, we will laugh at ourselves as earthlings and be greatful that we are finally free from all the bullshit that keeps of going on earth.
I really like this quote… wouldn’t it be great if we could live life on earth like this?
I’m with VaHermit on this one. Heaving is having all my questions answered - having all knowledge.
In spite of Catholic school in the '50s, I spent a lot of time as a kid wondering about the concepts of the afterlife. Took me a while to get there but once I decided there can’t be anything better than knowing everything, I’ve stuck with that.
I still haven’t settled on what I expect Hell to be. I wonder if this life isn’t Purgatory. Then there’s Limbo.