I think y’all got it bass-ackwards: People are good; individuals can be bad. The worst event in recent history was 9/11. It was engineered by maybe 100 individuals, but how many people commited acts of kindness in response? Over a million.
As long as more people are willing to be good than bad, people will do okay.
[quote=Annie-Xmas]
The worst event in recent history was 9/11.
[quote]
The worst event in recent U.S. history. And, in the grand scheme of things, the U.S. has a pretty benign history, at least if you’re white. I’d be willing to lay odds that a lot of people in, say, Rwanda or Angola, have a lot different idea of what constitutes the worst event in recent history.
Okay, say the bad person has a nuke (a device invented by “good” people to kill “bad” people). Then the “good” people will retaliate against the “bad” person, etc.
Way to mess up my quote box. Try again.
The worst event in recent U.S. history. And, in the grand scheme of things, the U.S. has a pretty benign history, at least if you’re white. I’d be willing to lay odds that a lot of people in, say, Rwanda or Angola, have a lot different idea of what constitutes the worst event in recent history.
Okay, say the bad person has a nuke (a device invented by “good” people to kill “bad” people). Then the “good” people will retaliate against the “bad” person, etc.
I guess I see where you got that from what I’d written. No, I don’t believe we’ve got a choice. I don’t believe we’ve got a choice in anything, actually. I don’t believe free will exists.
–Cliffy
I’m pretty much with you there. Actually, I think it exists, but just isn’t anywhere near as far reaching as people would like to believe. Kind of hard to prove one way or the other, though.
I haven’t finished reading The Wisdom of Crowds: Why the Many Are Smarter Than the Few and How Collective Wisdom Shapes Business, Economies, Societies and Nations yet, but so far its author would beg to differ with you (and Tommy Lee Jones ;)).
Oh, I’m confident I can prove it. Beyond the scope of the thread, though.
–Cliffy
Human beings are far from perfect and a lot of them can be downright shits sometimes. But, given half a chance and sometimes a lot of second chances, I believe that most people are inherently good and want to better themselves and the world around them.
Misnomer, actually I think that markets are really good at collecting and valuing information. However, their biggest flaw is volatility. So while a large group might be very good at getting a good answer, they’ll go through a handful of periods of extreme confidence in an extremely bad answer, and those periods are not consequence-free. Indeed, as we see in the stock market, they can be so serious that they impair the ability of the market to gather information with its typical efficiency. When you talk about politics, economics, or any important social dimension, those extreme swings also get people killed.
–Cliffy
This sums up my feelings pretty well. I’m amazed that so many people, by far the majority, seem to hold such misanthropic views…
I’ve always gotten the feeling that half of the world is running from the truth while the other half is running towards it while everyone is always running at each other.
Some people don’t want to escape the reality that in the history of the world we are small and insignificant. Some people think we are actually not insignificant at all. Some people want to avoid both sides at all costs. Some people from all factions think the opposite faction should shut up.
Humanity, by extension, would be a giant stipplized day at the park, with millions of tiny, tortured factions all attempting to vie for life, when on a grander scale they are actually a multi-colored fruit bowl.
I believe this since I also side with the first faction. We are born into a world we intrinsically can’t comprehend past a certain point, all the while unsure of where we came from and where we are going. We know for sure that the world is thousands of dudatudes past our earliest memory and, once dead, will continue to exist far beyond a million megadudatudes. Overall, we simply don’t know, like a glorified sex bot on the run from the law.
I, for one, have not been impressed and would like a refund.
“Wahhh, humans suck” is a common Internet phrase. Some people think it’s cool to be full of angst. News flash: It isn’t.
I think humanity is great. I hope there will be more of it in the future.
Ok, but the book isn’t just about markets. It’s about all different kinds of groups, large and small, significant and in-, and how people are smarter as groups way more often than we think. I’m not arguing group infallibility – they are, after all, made up of mere humans. Confidence in bad answers may indeed be harmful, but I don’t think that the probability of a bad answer increases just because a group came up with it. Mostly I just think that the guy who wrote that book and Tommy Lee Jones’s character in Men In Black could have an interesting conversation. 
You must be relatively new to the internet. 
Unlike RickJay, though, I don’t believe that the majority of people who express misantropic/antisocial views do so because they think it’s cool: I think that they really believe what they say. There are just a lot of cynical, lonely, angry, depressed, and/or alienated people on the 'net.
“Misantropic?” Would that be someone who has hatred and contempt for the Caribbean? :smack:
You may well be right, I haven’t actually had this conversation in real life now I think about it. I used to frequent a different forum until it was overrun with angsty teens (and a worse bunch of people I have never met, if they ever get their hands on any sort of power I fear for the future) and the “Humanity sucks!” viewpoint was the standard. I put it down to them being teenagers and tried posting a similar poll on a different forum which seemed to have a much more balanced posting population but again 9/10 people were negative.
And its the same here…I’m not sure what that says but it can’t be good.
Everyone’s annoying. A few of them are worth being around, despite that.
I second that, ZebraShaSha. I think we’re all running around blind in the dark bumping into each other and barking our shins on the coffee table. I also believe that we all have the potential to be so much bigger and more beautiful than these puny, delicate bodies that we’re each destined to drive around until they run out of gas and abandon us at the ‘great unknown’ that is the end life as we know it.
Maybe there’s a great big gold medal at the end, maybe there’s not. But either way, what’s the harm of seeing a person in need and going, “Hey, brother (or sister). I’ve been there. Lemme give you a hand up.”
This thread really makes me feel better about my fellow humans. But I’m kind of a
softie.
you gotta wonder about a group of people who invented spam…
Ummm, huh?