What's your opinion on circumcision?

Great Debates
201

First off, I never said ‘dysfunction’. I said that it has an effect on sexual feeling, which follows logically from the fact that there are many nerve endings in the foreskin which do, when stimulated, provide sexual pleasure.

If you cut them off, they are no longer there to provide sexual pleasure.

I wasn’t aware that amputation of a sexual organ was required for an HPV vaccine.

I am also aware that the HPV vaccine is far more effective at preventing cervical cancer than circumcision is at preventing HIV.

Let me ask you this: Would you trust being circumcised to protect you against HIV, or would you put a condom on?

Same question as above. Would you trust being circumcised to protect you against HIV, or would you put a condom on?

If you’re going to rely on the condom, why get cut?

Nobody here has said that circumicsion is wrong to have done to yourself.

Cutting off a functional body part for no measurable benefit or compelling and immediate need seems pretty abusive to me.

In another recent thread here, a few doctors chimed in to say that they would not circumcise a 5 year old over the 5 year old’s objections.

I like 'em as nature made 'em. Pity that’s so hard to find in America.

Braces are used to correct a problem that exists with the placement of teeth which often results in improper growth of permanent teeth, teeth that erupt from the side of the gums rather than where they’re supposed to, and a host of other problems that make caring for teeth difficult - overlapped teeth are hard to clean, TMJ is very painful, and depending upon how the permanent teeth come in there may not even be room for them all. Wisdom teeth are often extracted because of a lack of space, that they are often not cleaned well and become decayed, and that they often erupt sideways.

The thing is, braces correct a dental problem or defect. Having a foreskin is not a defect.

202

Come on. Braces shouldn’t be forced on the unwilling simply for cosmetic reasons. Does anybody actually think this is okay, too?

203

I’ve been in a room full of women and watched them all wrinkle their face at the mention of an uncircumcized man. It’s a matter of cultural taste.

Someone asked if Americans know it’s not common everywhere else. Well, I don’t live everywhere else. I live in America. American women find circumcised men more appealing. I personally prefer it for ease of maintenance and am happy my parents had it done.

204

And it’d take maybe one generation for that attitude to change in the US if widespread circumcision stopped.

I don’t find a scarred penis more appealing. Please don’t tell me what ‘American women’ find appealing, as I am one and can speak for myself, thank you very much.

205

Question, just out of curiosity-what do you say, catsix, to circumcision when it IS medically necessary?

ETA: and I’m not being nasty-I’m genuinely interested.

206

Braces are sometimes used to correct a problem that would otherwise cause pain, etc., but the majority of people I knew who had braces as kids (including myself) had them solely for cosmetic reasons (and I don’t remember having any choice about it - I was 12). My teeth were slightly crooked, as I believe most people’s are naturally. Certainly not a defect.

207

Braces in the United States are generally not placed to prevent caries or to treat TMJ. Even if they did prevent caries, let me ask you this: Would you trust braces to protect you against caries, or would you brush and floss? … TMJ? Braces sometimes reposition teeth such that TMJ is caused. Sure, there are some rare real medical indications for braces, just like there are less rare medical indications for circumcision (I regularly see kids who need circs for phimosis or for recurrent balanitits) but most of the time braces are placed on children in order to reshape their natural bite into the form more like an arbitrary cultural ideal for no reason other than that the parents believe that such an appearence will enhance their child’s future status and sexual attractiveness to potential mates. This is unlike circumcision in many ways, not the least of which is that circumcision is a one time brief procedure with minimal pain under today’s typical techniques, whereas braces hurt off and on for years and significantly interfer with daily function for years. There are small but real measurable medical benefits to circumcision, even if on balance with the small but real measurable risks the net effect is too small to call. There are no across the board medical benefits to braces. But both cause permanant changes to the structure of a body part. A child getting braces is by medicolegal definition unable to give informed consent. It is the parrent’s choice and is placed whether or not the child desires braces. Many a child has objected to braces to no avail, Dr Cube. Few orthodontist even asks kids if they want braces. On they go.

Making kids get braces is just something that parents do in this anthropological group. Dr Cube says that is wrong. How about you?

208

Yah, I don’t think so. I like women who shave their armpits, and legs along with a nice bikini trim. That trend is not going to change in the US because it is preferred by men in the US.

You have an opinion. Good for you. Every woman I’ve ever met has expressed an opinion opposite yours. Not some, all. So I’m inclined to disagree with you because they’ve been with both and prefer “scarred”.

209

Hasn’t this been asked and answered already in this thread and probably every other thread on this subject? No one objects to medically necessary circumcisions anymore than they object to medically necessary hysterectomies. If under the ridiculously rare circumstances you actually get cancer of the vulva I’m all for you voluntarily undergoing female genital mutilation.

210

To treat an actual problem, such as phimosis in older childhood, after the foreskin should naturally have retracted?

If that’s the only way it could be treated, fine, but I’d hope there were something that could be tried before amputation.

I object to the amputation of said body part when there is no medical necessity and the person on whom the procedure will be done is too young to consent.

What the hell are caries?

As for TMJ, I have it. Various things were tried to correct the alignment of my jaw joint, and most of them hurt. I was 10 when that started, and it was explained to me, and I did understand.

Also, post to me where I said that braces should be used instead of brushing and flossing. I said that overlapped or poorly aligned teeth are often harder to brush and floss properly, particularly if those teeth jut out strangely from the side of the gums.

I think braces are overused, and personally can’t see putting a kid through that for a purely cosmetic reason unless the kid wanted it.

You keep saying that, but the fact remains that scarring is always the result of said amputation. If you want to have yourself circumcised, have a great time. But you should go to jail for doing it to another person without an immediate need for which circumcision is the only possible remedy, or the fully informed consent of the person being circumcised.

211

This is getting ridiculous. If you’re anti male genital mutilation you’re not allowed to draw parallels between that and FGM. But if you’re pro male genital mutilation you’re free to make it directly equivalent to braces, armpit shaving and the opinion that you “just like it.”

Absolutely ridiculous.

212

It isn’t. Neither is it necessary for circumcision.

But circumcision is far more effective at preventing penile cancer than the HPV vaccine is at preventing HPV.

And the reason that it has to be one or the other would be…?

These exaggerations are getting silly.

Regards,
Shodan

213

Circumcision is nothing more than a word for amputation of the foreskin.

And penile cancer is already extremely rare. Only 400 men a year in the UK are diagnosed with it, which means less than that die of it. Your kid would have a far greater chance of drowning in a swimming pool or dying in a bicycle accident than ever even getting penile cancer.

Using condoms and not being promiscuous means it doesn’t matter whether you’re circumcised or not.

214

Catsix, caries is dental decay. You may not have noticed but all I did was cut and paste your lines about circumcisicion and its small but real medical benefits substituting braces for circumcision, caries for HIV, and brushing and flossing for condoms. Your reaction is quite amusing.

levdrakon, the “Nacirema” example is used with regularity in anthropology classes to put students on notice of their cultural biases. It is easy to dismiss the rituals of an other’s culture as “primitive” and “barbaric.” It is hard to see that that which you acccept is no less bizzare if seen through another’s eyes. Posters here have been quick to disrespect the religious and cultural signicance of circumcision among Jews. They have not only been ignorant of its meaning, they have been willfully ignorant of it. Much more satisfying to sit in smug judgement of the other.

Other posters have posited an absolute right to bodily integrity. If such a positiion is held then one really should be consistent in its application. Braces are a clear example of violation of that principle. I am merely wondering if supporters of that absolute right are consistent in their application of use. Inconsistency here would be ridiculous indeed.

Me? I am consistent. Parents make decisions on behalf of their children and often over their childen’s objections. They are given fairly wide but not absolute leeway in making those decisions. We limit that ability of parents to decide on their children’s behalves only when the evidence of harm is signicant and with even greater reluctance when religious issues are involved. I respect parents’ rights to come to conclusions other than those that I come to.

215

Scarring? I have no scar tissue around the area where my circumcision was done. I’ve also been up close and personal with many other circ’d penises and have never seen any scarring.

216

In most men thecircumcision scar is no more than darker colored skin which goes around the shaft of the penis. I’ll admit while I found out what circumcision meant in elementary school it wasn’t until I started researching restoration that I realized what mine was.

217

Guess its a matter of perspective. People who’ve had it done (by their parents) don’t see it as mutiliation nor do the women who date them. Us mutants seem pretty happy with it. If I thought it looked mutilated, or if I thought women didn’t like it then I might think differently. But I like having smooth dry skin as opposed to moist loose skin. Not sure what the fuss is over.

218

A lot of men don’t realize what was done to their dicks. Most circumcised men think the scar is a natural little bit of discoloration or a slight difference in the skin just before the head of the penis. Most guys don’t really want to think about how the size, shape and curvature of their penis could be the result of their circumcision. They only care whether it works. A lot of guys have hair growing on the base of the penis, sometimes quite a way up the shaft. It doesn’t occur to them the reason that hair is growing so far up the shaft is because the doctor was a little over zealous when he yanked a bunch of penile skin too far up over the head of the penis and lopped it off.

I’ll never forget this one brief but alarming conversation I had with my mom when I was a young teen. She asked,

“Is everything okay down there?”
“What the?!? Why???”
“Oh it’s just that when you were a baby I asked the doctor to be careful but he seems kinda rough. I’ve always wondered - did it turn out okay?”

That’s a conversation I’ll never forget. Excuse me for wondering if the perfectly well-functioning penis I have now is the one God/nature intended me to have.

219

It looks pretty much the same as the uncircumcised erect penis. Looking at the same site I would say the difference is in the flacid state.

220

Well, ISTM that if condom use is a wise precaution on medical grounds whether you’re circumcised or not, then you’ll use a condom whether you’re circumcised or not, in which case the health benefit of circumcision largely vanishes. But I may not be following the argument correctly.

Most women over here, where most men are uncut, seem to prefer the appearance of uncut men. But I would be perfectly willing to get myself cut to accommodate the aesthetic preferences of women… if, yanno, they were willing to reciprocate in kind if for whatever reason I disliked the look God gave them. :dubious:

Were Mrs Malacandra, Senior, around to express an opinion, I think she’d say she wished it were rarer.