SmartAlx, would you be satisfied if there was a universally available, cost-free form of birth control that had an efficacy rate of 100%? Would that preempt this discussion and solve the problem of unwanted pregnancies for you? Why or why not?
Sorry, I missed it.
There are other issues at stake (oxytocin bonding for example) than pregnancy so until those issues were handled effectively then I’d have to say ‘no, I’d still be against premarital sex.’ That’s really not the point of this thread though. The topics in this thread are easier to quantify than someone’s tendency to bond with the people they have sex with, so in that light, yes, this topic is about birth control and how it affects our attitudes towards sex.
And 3) pray you don’t get raped. Like I said, abstinence has a failure rate too.
But maybe after you all convince everybody to stop having sex, you can convince all the rapists to stop committing rape. Best of luck.
If women don’t want to get pregnant from rape, they should just get hysterectomies. Problem solved.
Please. Are you seriously saying that refraining from sex can still result in pregnancy?
I think you mean that absitnence only programs have failure rates too. I’m for emphasizing abstinence as the primary means of preventing pregnancy but I wouldn’t teach a class on sex ed without talking about how contraceptives are better than unsafe sex.
Rapes happen to non-virgins too so it’s really a neutral issue.
What does this even mean?
And if you’re against premarital sex, what’s the point of this thread? Why not come out with the real point? This thread feels like a smokescreen for your real issues.
I want people who are in support of a sexually active lifestyle to discover that even what is believed to be a “safe” lifestyle is actually not safe. I want to open your eyes to the fact that using contraceptives doesn’t allow you to shirk your responsibilities when you have sex… that contraceptives aren’t as effective as you want to think they are.
I’m saying that it’s possible to be pure as the driven snow, get raped and become pregnant.
Are you seriously suggesting that never happens?
I do mean that too, but it’s not what I was referring to in my response to Curtis. I do appreciate that you acknowledge that contraception is better than nothing.
My point was that being abstinent is not sufficient to ensure 100% that you won’t have a baby, as Curtis put it.
(Although now that I think about it, getting an abortion -is- a way to be 100% sure you that you won’t. But never mind.)
The part you’re missing is that many of us* -are- aware that contraceptives are not 100% effective, but don’t care because we consider that abortion is a perfectly responsible way to deal with resulting mishaps.
Just tossing numbers around isn’t going to change that opinion.
*Actually, on this board, I would guess that we’re all aware of the contraceptives’ failure rate even if some differ in their response to it.
But who are you to lecture me? My sexually active lifestyle has been just fine. So, seriously, who the hell are you?
Dude, like I said before, I think most people know that no contraception method is truly 100% effective, and that they still will have some decision making to do in case they get pregnant. IF they do, despite the contraception, their options are:
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Continue with it and keep the kid. Again, as has been said earlier, an unplanned pregnancy is not the same as an unwanted child. In this case the rest of the pregnancy will be no different from a planned pregnancy.
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Adopt the kid out. For this, I would at least want the woman to receive good prenatal care, both for herself and the fetus. And a certainty that the kid will be placed in a loving, nurturing environment.
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Abort the embryo/fetus. This will be the end result of a truly unwanted pregnancy. I would support easier access and less restrictions for this purpose.
And again, I don’t think your numbers are as bad as you think they are.
And again, I ask if there has been a study / survey where it shows what people (even better, teens) perceive as the risks of different types of birth control… I’m sure while some of them may not be too high, most people know that birth control in general is not 100% effective.
Let’s just all sit back, take a deep breath, and close our eyes for a second. Let us imagine a world in which the two worst things in our life are premarital sex and the Federal Reserve.
I’m sure most of us would think: holy f—in’ s—, Batman, how to I get to this paradise where foolin’ around and fiat currency are the worst things we have to deal with! Racism, crime, poverty, ignorance, intolerance – none of that exists! This place is great!
But hold on one moment, people: this mystical land in which premarital sex and the Federal Reserve are the worst things in the world, IS ACTUALLY OUR WORLD THROUGH RON PAUL’S EYES! [cue Twilight Zone theme]
It is startling to realize how libertarians seem to live on a completely different planet than me.
No, it hasn’t been fine. You are one of the 8,000,000 which makes you partially responsible for the million or so unexpected pregnancies.
And I might respond, "who the #### are YOU to force your sexually active lifestyle on me? I don’t want to be exposed to even one second of a girls gone wild commercial on my TV at night. I don’t want sorority girls to throw themselves at any drunk guy who knows how to belch the alphabet. I don’t want sitcoms to portray the belief that sex should be a normal part of dating. I don’t want my girlfriends to break up with me because I won’t have sex with them. And I certainly don’t want millions of babies aborted every year. All of these things happen today because society as changed its attitude towards sex. Your attitude that you believe that you aren’t affecting my life is wrong. You are.
The knowledge that other people have sex bothers you this much? Wow.
ETA: I’ve just been told privately that I am practically humping your mind. So sorry about that.
I’m not sure if there is a study about it but if you consider the default response to any discussion (besides this one) about anything related to sex is that the people having unsafe sex is the problem.
In general people accept that their contraceptive isn’t 100% but they still don’t believe that they will be one of the few unlucky ones, which might as well be 100%. After all, don’t young people as a group have the attitude that they are invincible?
I know this will get me in trouble, but I can’t stop myself. SmartAlx, this whole thread reads like you just had your first pregnancy scare or hear your dorm roomie getting laid every night while you type under the covers. If you don’t believe in premarital sex, fine. But I think Merneith’s questions from one page back all deserve answering, because it seems like you’ve got no actual problem and want no actual debate, you’re just mad at the world (or perhaps just women).
Now for my warning.
As i said, those things are on their way out anyway. Well, maybe not crime and poverty but the rest certainly are. The problems due to “foolin around” are only going to get worse.
It’s probably because I don’t see the huge deal that you’re seeing. It IS annoying to me that you keep this “OMG they’re having UNPLANNED pregancies!!!” as a big thing.
I will concede to what you said… and I still reply with the same answers as before. Start with repeating ad nauseum: “Unplanned is not unwanted.” An unplanned pregnancy that continues to term is usually not unwanted by the end of it, and it is not and should not be treated any different from a planned one. Which makes most of your point useless.