I think you are confused about how assimilation works. It’s not a one way street. In fact, it appears more significant that the in-group adopts customs and culture from the out-group than the other way around. The Irish were once “the negroes of Europe,” yet we all celebrate St. Patrick’s Day. The Italians were in a pretty similar boat at the turn of the last century, but pizza is as American as apple pie now.
No. But it is illogical to assume that any one fact is controlling, or not a function of some other fact. Blacks are on the whole poorer, less educated, and more likely to be the focus of police attention. Those three factors adequately explain the higher conviction rates for blacks versus other groups.
There are disparities between men and women. But I’ll say there are inherent differences between men and women and some of these disparities may be the result of these inherent differences.
I do not feel that race is the same situation. My opinion is that there is no significant inherent difference between black people and white people.
Let me repeat my earlier question: Do you feel there are significant inherent differences between black people and white people?
No, it’s not racist to point out what the facts are. It’s how you explain why those facts exist that raises the possibility of racism.
Do you feel that black people have some inherent trait that causes them to commit more crimes? That they will commit more crimes than whites or Asians, regardless of the outside circumstances, just because they are black?
Or do you feel there is no such inherent trait? That black people commit more crimes because they are in a situation which produces more crime? That if black people were in a different situation they wouldn’t commit more crimes and if white people were in the same situation they would commit more crimes?
To address the theory you mentioned, do you feel the honor culture that supports crimes exists among blacks because of some inherent trait that black people possess? Or do you feel this honor culture that supports crime exists because of other social factors and could exist among any race if circumstances were different?
Is any of the discrepancy due to factors other than genetic differences, or sexism?
Is it possible that there is any basis for the difference between blacks and whites in incarceration rates and poverty that is due neither to genetic differences, nor to racism?
Well, I certainly don’t think that anti-black racism is no longer an issue in the USA today. It very much is, and quite a significant one.
That said, it’s definitely on the decline, at least in the grand sweep of things. There’s less racism now than there was in 1970, less then than in 1940, etc.
So, given examples such as Irish or Italian immigrants, we might hold out hope that at some point the amount of anti-black racism will be zero-to-trivial. But presumably it will take quit some time after that before black people catch up in terms of wealth, education, etc… because they’re starting with a huge disadvantage, namely how far behind they currently are in terms of wealth, education, etc. And social/economic/educational mobility is not as easy as it should be.
Honestly, I don’t feel like I’m saying anything particularly surprising or controversial here.
I suppose it does bring up an interesting question, kind of a version of the debate about affirmative action. Suppose 100 years from now it’s absolutely clear that anti-black racism in the US is just not an issue any more… all the leading thinkers agree that it has withered and died, some time between the years 2035 and 2075. But that’s only 3 or 4 generations in the future, and black people on average are still lagging behind, economically. Is that a “problem”, per se? Is that something that should be solved/fixed? Why? If there are a million poor people in the US in the year 2116, are the 500,000 of them whose ancestors were poor partly/largely due to racism somehow more tragic, or more in need of assistance, than the other 500,000, whose ancestors were poor for other reasons?
The difference between the percentage of black people in society and in jail in 1926 was 12%. It is currently 25% which is more than double the previous rate. I think it is hard to think of anything else where the cause shrinks by a huge percentage but the effect doubles. That indicates to me there is no direct relationship between the variables or even the effect goes the other way.
I feel that there is probably not an inherent trait that causes the to commit crime, but the question is too complicated to have a definitive answer at this point. What is the situation you are referring to?
I think that honor cultures make people more prone to crime regardless of the race involved. For example, southern whites are more prone to crime than northern whites because there is still a remnant of honor culture among southern whites. If you are interested in this topic, here is a Norwegian documentary that addresses it. It has subtitles for those of us that don’t speak Norwegian.
Why do you think that Whites are arrested more and incarcerated at higher rate than Asians? Is it because of the situation white people are in, because society is prejudiced and teaches cops to hate and fear white people, or because they commit more crime?
If it is the latter is there something inherent in white people that causes this relative propensity for crime?
You keep trying to shift the question. I’m not arguing that it’s an issue of genetics vs racism. I’m asking if the differences are inherent or not inherent. By definition, everything is going to fall into one of those two categories.
Okay. If it’s not something inherent to being black, then it’s something that can be changed. And if it can be changed, I think it should be. I don’t see any benefit being derived from the high black crime and incarceration rates. It’s obviously not benefiting black people. And it’s not benefiting society as whole to have to support the police and prison system these rates require. I think we all agree that everyone would be better off if black people committed fewer crimes and served fewer prison sentences. So what changes should we be looking at to achieve this?
I am not shifting the question at all. Is it possible that there are one or more factors causing disparate rates of incarceration and poverty that are neither genetic, nor racist? You have already made it clear that you believe that the belief that genetic factor may be involved is racist. That’s why I am asking - are there any factors that can’t be considered racist?
Or are you trying to say that any differences between blacks and whites are racist by definition?
Yes. More than just possible, there are a multitude of factors. Some factors, however, will have more influence than others. Some factors will be negligible. Some will be profound.
Did you really think anyone here thought the factors consisted entirely of one variable???
Yes, it’s possible that there are factors that are not genetic or racist. I don’t think I’ve ever said otherwise.
Do you think it’s possible that there are factors that are not either inherent or not inherent? I don’t see how that’s possible - inherent and not inherent seem to cover all the possibilities - but if you think there’s a factor that falls outside those two possibilities, throw it out here for people to consider.
No what I said was:
I have been willing to state what I believe and I am standing by it. You just keep asking questions while avoiding taking any stands.
What you often see is that the more free and equal society gets the more gender specialised will be the choices of men and women. I think few people would claim that for instance Pakistan is more free and liberated than for instance Norway. Yet, when women choose a profession to study, women in Norway tend to go for more gender typical professions than women in Pakistan.