I suppose the question could be, “When did the rest of the world start squatting,” but I guess I’m assuming that the butt-on-heels crouch that is the resting posture for three-quarters of the world is the older human behavior.
How did Europeans become so reliant on chairs compared to the rest of the world? Judging by European painting, in which I can’t recall ever seeing the pose depicted, not squatting is a lot older than comfortable chairs, which seem to be a post-Renaissance invention. What’s the straight dope on sitting down?
The Egyptians had chairs (and had had them long enough to make them pretty damned stylish). The concept is thousands of years old, older than recorded history even. We have wood carvings of ancient Africans sitting down on chairs too. Who doesn’t build things to sit on?
I’ve been told rather a lot of 'em sit on chairs with no backs, which could get changed up somewhat by folks playing ‘telephone’ as that claim makes the rounds.
Well, hunter-gatherers don’t. “Thousands of years” is recent stretch in human history spanning some 40 000 years in the strictest sense. Ethnographies from Africa, Australia and the Americas, at least, are full of pictures of H-Gs squatting - no chairs to be seen, however crude. Apparently, squatting down isn’t uncomfortable enough to make people start lugging big, cubish rocks or large-diameter tree trunks to the camp site (a chair has to be pretty high to be much better than no chair at all). I’d bet that “building a thing to sit on” would strike a forager as stupenduous waste of energy. At least some pastoralists, like the Saami, kept this point of view. Up until the 20th century, they reportedly would look down on anyone not able to squat inside the ‘kota’ like they do.
Bit of a value judgement there. I’d expect most of the world’s chopstick users would be pretty unhappy to be called “primitive” for using utensils that require a lot more skill and dexterity than your primitive food shovel.
I squat, Asian-style. I didn’t know it was Asian-style until I was an adult, I’ve been doing it forever because it works. It’s definitley not a cultural thing for me. I’m pretty loose limbed, and I can certainly stretch and bend in ways that most other 45-year-olds can’t.
Squatting is very comfortable if you’re used to it, and it’s a great way to rest your legs without putting your arse on wet/dirty ground.
I never said only Europeans have chairs. I just said that there’s a certain strategy for what to do in the absence of a chair that Westerners don’t employ—why?
Whether it’s “primitive” or not, I didn’t ask why Third Worlders still squat; I asked why Europeans don’t (anymore). I admit I’m assuming that it’s a pretty ancient behavior, and that the distant ancestors of modern Europeans did it at some point. I’m willing to be corrected on that point, though.
Everything I’ve ever seen about squatting (which isn’t much) indicates that squatting is a resting position. Descriptions from Viet Nam vets also added the concept of being less noticeable to your enemies. So I’d ask what information is available about the practise of squatting in the modern world. For instance is there any evidence that squatting is preferable to sitting when a chair like object is available. And what is the evidence that Europeans don’t squat now. Then I’d look at the evidence that squatting was ever prevalent in Europe in the first place.
It’s an interesting question, but all based on assumptions so far.
Because we are never commonly in a situation where we wait for long periods of time and chairs or benches aren’t available.
Basest on my own travels in India and SE Asia, the local people only squat when nothing else is available. At bus stations or train stations in India / SE Asia they don’t provide many (or sometimes any at all) chairs or benches and theres often long long delays. Still people will sit on their own luggage in preference to squatting. It’s only the poorest that you see squatting on their heels, the slightly more well off will wait in restaurants or cafes which have seating provided.
So did I. Years ago, in a squat ironically, I learned to always squat while defocating for an easier and more complete experience. I’ve just had a look for a cite for an explanation, but all of the webspages I found seem to make claims that sitting while shitting is a causal factor in many ‘Western’ diseases. I don’t know if that claim is true or not but it seems too outlandish to use as a cite here.
40,000 years is still thousands of years. Go to any museum or visit any website that displays tribal art, and you’ll invariably find things like this. Sure, before people started making permanent dwellings and begun farming and all that, it wouldn’t have been worth building anything, but I still think the concept is more widespread, and older, than you might think. The thread’s title is a little misleading to me then, because it isn’t just Europe that ‘stopped squatting’, it started happening everywhere.
The question is interesting if you take chairs out of the equation completely, because it is true that in western countries when nothing is available to sit on, we will either sit cheeks on the floor or just stand and wait. This is very different behaviour, and is probably very difficult to pin point when we deviated from the older behaviour. Ancient history in Europe is sketchy at best.
Potter’s wheels generally require one to be seated somehow, even if it’s just a slab on the floor and that technology is very, very old.
I’m interested in whether sitting cheeks on the floor is more or less comfortable than this squatting position though. Trying out myself, it certainly isn’t, and doesn’t feel natural, but then that’s no indication that with practice it can’t be. My guess is that it’s impossible to really gauge the comfort levels of both behaviours.
