When did Europeans stop squatting, and why?

Factual Questions
41

Southeast Asians do indeed squat, but it’s mostly an outdoor thing, while waiting, say, for a bus or taking a break from the fields. Indoors, they’ll sit on floor cushions or mats in the absence of modern furniture. Mostly a rural practice, too. Not many squatters in Bangkok. Then there are the squat toilets, an adventure in themselves. I never could squat like the locals, not even when I was here in my 20s and much more flexible than I am now.

I’ve heard that modern furniture became popularized in Thailand during one of several dictatorship of the 1950s and early 1960s. Maybe Phot Sarasin or Sarit Thanarat? Whoever it was, the story goes he wanted to drag Thailand into the modern world.

42

I can, and do squat Asian-style. I can also sit cross-legged “yogi style” or whatever it’s called. I’m always amused at how many people can’t do that. It’s partly that I"m naturally flexible, but also because I’ve always practiced.

43

seriously? you’re saying a westerner are equipped to take a dump in the wild?

seriously? primitive? you think a mini shovel and a trident is superior? you do understand chopsticks aren’t for stabbing right?
it is too soon for the whooshes to fly. :confused:

44

Let’s put it this way -

If you grow up crapping in a hole in the floor, you learn how to squat comfortably. If you grow up crapping in a toilet bowl, you don’t. It’s as simple as that.

45

No it isn’t. I’m Australian, of Celtic ancestry. I have never crapped in a hole in the floor in my life. I grew up using the exact same toilet that most other “Europeans” use.

Yet I squat Asian style. Because it comes naturally to me. I’ve been doing it forever, no-one taught me how to do it, and no-one ever tried to teach me not to do it.

It’s a standard human posture that many “Europeans” lose the ability to achieve because “grownups sit in chairs” is the dominant behaviour pattern in “the west”. It’s not that “Asians” have learned a new posture that “Europeans” generally don’t, it’s that (some) “European” adults have lost a posture that comes naturally to every human child.

I can squat because I am more supple than most 45-year-old white males because I never stopped doing the things I’ve been doing since I was a child because I never saw any good reason to stop doing things that work.

46

…as I said back in post 13.

47

It’s also worth mentioning here that when I first worked as a labourer, I was “reminded” that squatting is the only correct way to lift heavy objects without hurting your back. If you’re regularly lifting heavy objects the wrong way, you’re pretty much guaranteed to do your back in.

That’s why proper training for physical work includes training to squat properly. If I need to lift something, or if I drop something and need to pick it up, I drop to a squat and straighten up using my leg muscles. My back is just fine, thanks, despite having done quite a lot of heavy lifting over the years.

Watch professional (and non-stupid) people who lift up heavy things for a living and see what they do.

48

well, the question bears repeating. the only way it would make sense to me is if he thought chopsticks were pointy sticks used for spearing food.

aren’t.

49

I think it’s that the muscles in the legs end up forming a certain way if you grow up squatting. That doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t squat if you didn’t grow up doing it – I’ve known a few Western newbies over here who found they could easily enough – but it’s certainly the reason why I myself never could. And I don’t mean squatting on the balls of your feet; I’m talking about a full-fledged flat-footed squat.

50

ah i see there appears to be a big difference between the two types of squats.

51

No, by and large, we aren’t. Of course, those who need to tend to be a self-selecting group of very fit people, and they can manage it…but the rest of us? Nope.

True story: one day the Porta John at our (car camping) campground filled up and service couldn’t make it through because the road was washed out. Most people just held their stool, but someone did dig a latrine for solid waste. The first few people to try to use it had to work in pairs, because no one could keep their balance! It didn’t take long for someone to find a big bucket and a chainsaw and cut most of the bottom out of the bucket, place a couple of boards across the latrine hole and the bucket upside down on the boards, creating a primitive toilet seat. Suddenly all those people who had been holding it decided to try it out, and it worked rather well.

52

You can’t judge capability on the first crap. Everyone of a normal build can shit squatting with a day or twos practice, and fitness doesn’t come into it. It’s a position of rest.
People have strokes through over-exertion defocating on a seat, and that is not the way I want to be found. One cup of coffee to kickstart the ‘urge to purge’, squat, one Valsalva manoeuvre, and the shit shoots out like when a sloth does it’s weekly excretion.

No effort, no strain, no pain, and no waiting around or stopping before the job is done.

53

In North Cameroon, most people did not use much furniture. Eating, sleeping, sitting, etc. was all done on a grass or woven plastic mat on the floor, usually outside on gravel (which is actually fairly comfortable.) People had an amazing ability to sit for hours with their backs straight and their feet straight out. Squatting was also pretty popular when waiting for buses, having meetings, having a quick visit, etc.

At best, your average family would have a low ankle-high stool for doing chores on. Rich families might have a bed, but probably only used it on rainy days. Even my very rich friends who lined their living rooms with elaborate sofas would usually ignore the sofas and conduct all their day-to-day living on the ground. We ran into trouble hosting a dinner at the end of an event when it became clear that many of the attendees had never eaten at a table before!

Anyway, I was surprised at how different things were in Mali, where they have locally produced traditional furniture. I’m not sure why they could swing it in much-poorer Mali while the Cameroonians were perfectly happy with their mat.

In my experience in Western China, squatting in public these days would be a bit crass. Country-types may do it waiting from trains and the like, but it’s no longer something you see regularly. However, pretty much everyone, besides some very old or disabled people, are able to use squat toilets and every American I know- including some fairly elderly people- eventually can become used to it. One legacy of squatting does live on- in outdoor beer drinking venues it’s not unusual for the chairs or stools to be just a few inches off the ground and the tables maybe a foot off the ground- it’s like drinking in a kindergarten classroom.

I think ideas of “cleanliness” play a role. In China, the ground is assumed to be absolutely disgusting. Even indoors it can be okay to spit on it, let your baby piss, and throw sunflower seeds, uneaten food, dirty tissues, etc. on it. This leads to a lot of customs, like taking off your shoes when entering a house. It also means you pretty much never just plain sit on the floor.

We don’t really have the same distaste for the ground.

54

Practicing yoga since I was a teenager, assimilating into Indian culture, living in Southeast Asia, my tendons stretched out and adapted well to flat-footed squats, seiza, lotus position, and various other ways of placing oneself on the ground without furniture. I carry heavy loads on top of my head too. These things aren’t impossible for Westerners at all. It’s just a matter of practice and habituation. A little cultural assimilation helps too, when the people around you are all doing it. The way some African women sit on the ground with their legs stretched straight out in front of them, though, was always challenging for me, because while it’s easy on the leg tendons, it demands a lot of the lower back. I’d rather challenge my legs and go easy on my back.

The Proprieties of Sitting

55

Among Westerners who can do the full flat-footed squat, contests are not unheard of to see who can be the fastest to drop down and squat without toppling over, especially after a few beers.

56

I used to squat, both flatfooted and on the front of my feet, when I needed to crap in the woods. It’s a lot more easy on the legs than holding a squat with my knees bent at right angles.

I’ve had knee surgery since then, but what do you know!, sticking to my rehab really did pay off - I can still Asian squat!

It is really relegated to a crapping position in my mind. I’ve played enough football (usa) that if I MUST rest the default position is to take a knee.

57

Just tried it - I can’t anymore. I can sit cross-legged and yogi-style with ease, and do all the time, but I cant do the squat. I think it has more to do with anatomical differences between peoples than anything else.

58

I think the main reason so many Asians use the low, resting ‘Asian squat’ is simply because of the way their bodies are shaped. Shorter arms and legs and longer torsos, compared to the majority of majority of people of European and African descent. Affects the center of gravity.

As someone with very short upper body (46 of my 65 inches are pelvis and legs), it’s impossible to balance myself in an ‘Asian squat’. I am fit, flexible, do weighted squats and yoga for exercise- but I can’t maintain a low flat-foot squat. I can get down, but I have to get right back up again, otherwise I tip over backwards.

I can sit in a squat for a long time with my weight resting on the balls of my feet and my heels slightly off the ground. It tires my feet out eventually, though.

59

“Longer torsos”? In Thailand? :confused:

No, from my personal observation, it’s mostly the way the muscles form while growing up squatting. And I think muscle formation while squatting during development is different from whatever it is muscles do during training in yoga or whatever as an adult.

60

A thread from 2008 on squatting technique