When did oral sex become a common part of sex?

People in traditional cultures don’t go around with poo encrusted bums. I’m not sure where you get this bizarre idea. Again, I would have to attribute this to cultural bias.

I regard this as a concession that you don’t actually have any valid point to make.

Exactly how many traditional culture people’s bums have you inspected in order to speak with such authority? Are they the ones who taught you how to do a 69 with no ass to face proximity?

Can you provide a cite? Perhaps a thread in the GD or IMHO may be better? I haven’t seen any factual claims or cites you have made against the various documentation to the contrary.

As Urinary Tract Infections are a risk with even with missionary style sex and antibiotics not existing before WW2 meant you just died or suffered the consequences your claim that humans had no sanitary standards seems absurd.

Intelligence hasn’t increased significantly in humans for tens of thousands of years in humans and most people were probably smart enough to realize that hemorrhoids from not wiping well are not fun.

I also question your seeming equivalency of cavemen and traditional cultures. There’s no possible advances in hygiene between the two?

Can you provide a cite to what a “caveman” was?

The Talmud describes people carrying special smooth stones, rich people in some cultures were known to use wool and other cultures with access to water use to defecate in water and some plants are well known for the purpose among some groups of Native Americans. In some cultures one of the hands is reserved for this use and it is a cultural taboo to have that hand on the dinner table.

Improper sanitation in this area leads to hemorrhoids, which once again without modern post-germ theory medication was a serious threat to ones health.

I’ve worked among or spent time with traditional cultures in Central America (Embera, Guna, Ngabe-Bugle, Teribe), South America (Yaminawa, Machiguenga and others; one of my field assistants was an adult before his tribe was contacted by missionaries), Africa (pygmies, Maasai), New Guinea (Arfak mountains), and Melanesia (Fiji). What is your opinion based on?

I’ve spent months living with the Embera. They are very cleanly. In villages that lack latrines, they have a specific place where people go to defecate, and they bathe frequently. I’ve never noticed that any other person from a traditional culture had any odor of fecal matter about them. They might sometimes smell of sweat, but not of that.

Again, I take this to indicate you have no substantive response.

Someone in this thread was presenting as fact that oral sex amongst humans was documented by cave drawings. That has been uncited. I’m certainly not saying it’s impossible early humans had oral sex, just that I have reason to doubt.

Hemorrhoids are not caused by poor wiping.

No seriously, as clinically as possible explain how I’m “doing it wrong” that I notice my face close to my partner’s bum when we engage in a 69. I am honestly mystified.

If your partners bum typically has fecal matter on it, I don’t know what to say.

OK Dermatitis Neglecta or other forms of Dermatitis, which also can lead to pruritic lesion of skin tags which are similar to external hemorrhoids.

Evidence exists in Pompeii, ancient Egypt, Peru, and the Kamasutra.

As the Osiris myth is from or before the 24th century BCE why do you doubt that it existed before we developed writing?

In any case, fecal matter around the anus is not as much of a problem as you seem to imagine. A high-fiber diet and the traditional squatting posture used before the invention of toilets (which spreads the buttocks apart) is going to result in less residue. And humans had hands before they had glutei maximei; enough fecal matter to be irritating could be removed manually.

Why would you think they would be different?

She’s not a cavewoman. We have a supply of soap and water.

You ducked the question, I see. You can just say you’ve never done a 69. No shame.

The knowledge and wisdom of past generations.

You ducked the question about what you think a “caveman” is. Modern research shows that you’d find the same modern brain in humans up to 100,000 years ago.

Until you define what you consider a “caveman” your point is meaningless. Note that the Greeks didn’t really use use soap and water and still had documented oral sex practices.

69 is not the only way to perform oral sex.

I have never said we evolved to have bigger brains than cavemen so I honestly have no idea why you want me to cite that. And you surely can’t be asking me to cite that we have different knowledge, habits and practices than cavemen.

It is a fairly normal circumstance, in my experience anyway. When I brought it up, Colibri doubled down that I was “doing it wrong”. What say you?

You’ve moved the goalposts from “sticking your face in fecal matter” to “getting your face close to your partner’s bum.” The former is what I am referring to.

I’m pretty sure I’ve been doing 69 since before you were 6. :wink: I’ve never gotten my face in fecal matter. And this kind of goading doesn’t exactly make your posts more credible.

Also, as has been said, neither fellatio nor cunnilingus require one to get one’s nose close to the other person’s anus, even if this were an issue.

Cro-Magnons don’t appear to be that much different culturally to some recent hunter gatherer cultures. They’re modern humans in every way.

You’ve ducked or hand-waved just about every other point I’ve made. The fact that you keep harping on 69 shows you don’t have any actual counter arguments. You’re just grasping at straws.

So “caveman” is a rhetorical device? And you are resorting to circular logic. You can’t define a caveman, yet claim to know their practices?

You are also ignoring the presence of oral sex in orangutans, chimpanzees, bonobos, bears, bats, sheep, and wolves.

As you are the one claiming that there is something different between modern humans in a hunter gather society despite the behavior existing in our closest relatives you are making the novel claim and must provide evidence.

The null hypothesis in this case, due to the evidence, is that oral sex happened. It seems a non-novel behavior in similar social mammals and others.

Your argument seems to be that it is just “too icky” which isn’t much of an argument.

I am not ignoring bonobos and chimps. Are you reading the thread? I have clearly stated my hypothesis that our large gluteal muscles, unique amongst apes, makes our nether regions more gross.

Which also responds to Colibri, who above states I have ducked all his questions. He asked for my hypothesis. I gave it to him. He decided to ignore it. And he distinctly has decided not to admit his error that a 69 doesn’t require ass-face proximity.