Bonobos, which are regarded as our closest living relative, engage in frequent oral sex. In fact, oral sex is the bonobo equivalent of a handshake. Google “Bonobo sex” for some interesting reading.
George Schaller, in his classic The Mountain Gorilla, reports males giving stimulation to females both orally and digitally.
Oral sex has also been documented in gibbons (siamangs), baboons, and macaques.
It’s a basic principle of evolutionary biology that if a trait or behavior is present in two related species it was probably also present in their common ancestor. It is more parsimonious to postulate that a trait evolved once in the ancestor, than that it disappeared and then re-evolved in one lineage. Based on this, one would conclude that oral-genital behavior evolved in not only the common ancestor of apes (including humans), but probably also in the common ancestor of apes and Old World Monkeys, if not earlier.
Given that oral sex is widespread in non-human primates including our closest relatives, and common in traditional cultures throughout the world, it would be extraordinary if the behavior died out in human ancestors due to some sudden development of aversion to smelly odors, only to re-emerge only when people started washing more. I think the default assumption should be that the behavior was continuously present rather than this more complex scenario, which is not based on any evidence.
Your skepticism that ancient humans engaged in oral sex appears to be based on your cultural biases. Both the proscription of oral sex in Western culture (although its widespread surreptitious practice) and modern fastidiousness about hygiene are cultural elements that go back only a few hundred years. To extrapolate from such recent behaviors to the behavior of humans tens of thousand of years ago isn’t warranted.
People in traditional cultures don’t go around with poo encrusted bums. I’m not sure where you get this bizarre idea. Again, I would have to attribute this to cultural bias.
I regard this as a concession that you don’t actually have any valid point to make.
Exactly how many traditional culture people’s bums have you inspected in order to speak with such authority? Are they the ones who taught you how to do a 69 with no ass to face proximity?
Can you provide a cite? Perhaps a thread in the GD or IMHO may be better? I haven’t seen any factual claims or cites you have made against the various documentation to the contrary.
As Urinary Tract Infections are a risk with even with missionary style sex and antibiotics not existing before WW2 meant you just died or suffered the consequences your claim that humans had no sanitary standards seems absurd.
Intelligence hasn’t increased significantly in humans for tens of thousands of years in humans and most people were probably smart enough to realize that hemorrhoids from not wiping well are not fun.
The Talmud describes people carrying special smooth stones, rich people in some cultures were known to use wool and other cultures with access to water use to defecate in water and some plants are well known for the purpose among some groups of Native Americans. In some cultures one of the hands is reserved for this use and it is a cultural taboo to have that hand on the dinner table.
Improper sanitation in this area leads to hemorrhoids, which once again without modern post-germ theory medication was a serious threat to ones health.
I’ve worked among or spent time with traditional cultures in Central America (Embera, Guna, Ngabe-Bugle, Teribe), South America (Yaminawa, Machiguenga and others; one of my field assistants was an adult before his tribe was contacted by missionaries), Africa (pygmies, Maasai), New Guinea (Arfak mountains), and Melanesia (Fiji). What is your opinion based on?
I’ve spent months living with the Embera. They are very cleanly. In villages that lack latrines, they have a specific place where people go to defecate, and they bathe frequently. I’ve never noticed that any other person from a traditional culture had any odor of fecal matter about them. They might sometimes smell of sweat, but not of that.
Again, I take this to indicate you have no substantive response.
Someone in this thread was presenting as fact that oral sex amongst humans was documented by cave drawings. That has been uncited. I’m certainly not saying it’s impossible early humans had oral sex, just that I have reason to doubt.
No seriously, as clinically as possible explain how I’m “doing it wrong” that I notice my face close to my partner’s bum when we engage in a 69. I am honestly mystified.
In any case, fecal matter around the anus is not as much of a problem as you seem to imagine. A high-fiber diet and the traditional squatting posture used before the invention of toilets (which spreads the buttocks apart) is going to result in less residue. And humans had hands before they had glutei maximei; enough fecal matter to be irritating could be removed manually.
You ducked the question about what you think a “caveman” is. Modern research shows that you’d find the same modern brain in humans up to 100,000 years ago.
Until you define what you consider a “caveman” your point is meaningless. Note that the Greeks didn’t really use use soap and water and still had documented oral sex practices.
I have never said we evolved to have bigger brains than cavemen so I honestly have no idea why you want me to cite that. And you surely can’t be asking me to cite that we have different knowledge, habits and practices than cavemen.
You’ve moved the goalposts from “sticking your face in fecal matter” to “getting your face close to your partner’s bum.” The former is what I am referring to.
I’m pretty sure I’ve been doing 69 since before you were 6. I’ve never gotten my face in fecal matter. And this kind of goading doesn’t exactly make your posts more credible.
Also, as has been said, neither fellatio nor cunnilingus require one to get one’s nose close to the other person’s anus, even if this were an issue.
Cro-Magnons don’t appear to be that much different culturally to some recent hunter gatherer cultures. They’re modern humans in every way.
You’ve ducked or hand-waved just about every other point I’ve made. The fact that you keep harping on 69 shows you don’t have any actual counter arguments. You’re just grasping at straws.
I’ve never gotten my face in fecal matter. And this kind of goading doesn’t exactly make your posts more credible.