One data point. In high school (1970s) I wasn’t ready to have sex with my girlfriend (she would have seen it as the equivalent to a marriage proposal) we had oral sex. It wasn’t good oral sex, but it was oral sex. (A minute to learn, a lifetime to master.)
I haven’t seen any of these oral sex cave drawings.
It’s in Cave La Marche/Grotte Le Marche; google that plus oral sex and you’ll get references. I can’t find an image (the cave is petrogylphs and I think they really can’t be photographed; all you ever see is reproductions) (But there’s no reproduction with oral, so…)
One of my relatives was doing research in Paris, and related the fllowing banter with her male French co-workers.
“That is the trouble with American women - sans gout.” [smacks lips]
Her retort: “I should hope not!”
My point, as you quoted, is that having a law against oral sex is not a good indication that oral sex was generally considered a bad thing, especially when you take into account that while the language of the laws were broad, in practice the laws were nearly always only prosecuted in the case of same sex and non consensual oral sex. Just like the existence of a law that technically applies to file sharing, showing a movie in a classroom, or making a mix tape doesn’t show that there was any general moral opposition to those acts, but rather that the language of the law was/is broad.
I think it was one of Heinlein’s characters who said “If you want to know what people were up to, look at what they have laws against.”
There’s the old joke that there was no law against lesbianism in Victorian England because the male cabinet members could not figure out how to explain such a law to Queen Victoria.
As part of the (limited) curriculum on Fashion in my courses on Collective Behavior we were repeatedly exposed to the legend that women’s lipstick was popularized by (or invented by, depending on the person relating the tale) Cleopatra of Egypt.
Legend was that she would have men fight arena battles, throw the losers to her handmaidens, and take the winners to her chambers. She painted her lips bright red (wore lipstick) as advertisement of her oral abilities (those who say she only popularized it tend to note that lipstick was otherwise worn only by prostitutes of the time) while forbidding her handmaidens to do likewise (advertise? or perform the act?).
So how long ago did Cleopatra reign?
–G!
Sweet Nancy was so fancy
To get into her pants we
Had to be the aristocracy
The members that she toyed with
At her city club
were something in diplomacy
So we put her on the hit list
Of a common cunning linguist
A master of many tongues
Now she eases gently
From her Austin to her Bentley
Suddenly she feels so young
…–Ian Gillan (Deep Purple)
…Knocking at your Back Door
…Perfect Strangers
Among other things, he claimed that babies had orgasms. :eek:
There’s a website called retroraunch dot info (yeah, to satisfy the two-click rule) that features vintage pornography, and also has a disclaimer stating that they are not responsible for trauma incurred by seeing your ancestors doing it. Plenty of oral action there, from all angles.
So…maybe the references are a pile of baloney.
There are reasons to be skeptical of la marche. But thinking that hippies invented the BJ isn’t grounds for skepticism about cave art. People had mouths and genitals. They were bored.
So the one set of cave drawings that includes oral sex are under a cloud of skepticism and no one has reproduced the actual drawings that depict it.
I don’t think hippies invented BJs but you have not shown cavemen did either. Yes, humans love sex but they are also adverse to sticking their face into fecal matter. Well, most of them anyways.
If you’re sticking your face into fecal matter when you’re engaged in oral sex then you’re doing it wrong.
Especially with fellatio, you’re not going to be close to fecal matter in normal circumstances.
You seem to have peculiar idea about hygiene in traditional cultures. Medieval European cultures may have been adverse to bathing but this is not necessarily typical. I’ve stayed with indigenous people in Panama and elsewhere in the world and they bathe daily whenever possible.
As has been mentioned, bonobos and other primates engage in oral sex. You are proposing that at some point human ancestors abandoned this practice, only to start engaging in it again at some later time. This isn’t a parsimonious scenario.
Even if earlier humans were not concerned with cleanliness, you are projecting the modern aversion toward body odors and contact with feces/urine on other cultures. Just because you might find unwashed genitalia off-putting doesn’t mean that earlier humans would have any such concern.
Poor guy’s never done a 69 lecturing me on sex. 
Says the guy projecting bonobo behavior onto humans.
Like I say, you’re obviously doing it wrong…
Says the evolutionary biologist.
So explain your hypothesis. At what point did human ancestors stop engaging in oral sex, and why? At what point did they start engaging it again? Did they suddenly decide it was OK after inventing toilet paper?
Shit carries diseases. Caged monkeys monkeys throw shit at people they don’t like. A chimp who learned sign language spontaneously signed “shit” when angry at a dog. I’m pretty sure most cultures are averse to contact with feces.
I’d rest your case on “you don’t have to get close to feces” and “primitive people bathed, too.” Yeah, some people are into scat, but I’m pretty sure that has always been a minority.
Here’s a link supporting my claim about apes using “shit” as an explitive:
The other claim is based on a friend’s experience working ina lab with monkeys. The doctors, who injected the monkeys and did other unpleasant things to them wore white lab coats. The technicians who fed the monkeys and cleaned their cages wore green. She said the monkeys routinely threw shit at the doctors, but not at the technicians.
When we started walking upright. Humans’ big gluteus maximus make us more likely to entrap fecal matter, therefore less likely to enjoy sticking our faces’ in each other’s crotches.
Are you saying every other species of ape has regular oral sex?
However, chimps will eat food covered with feces or otherwise smelly. They may hesitate, but will get over their aversion.
And caged chimps and monkeys throw fruit, branches, stones, and anything else they can get their hands on at people. They throw shit because it’s always available since it’s ammunition they can manufacture themselves. The fact that they throw it doesn’t mean they find it particularly aversive. If that were the case you’d also have to conclude they find apples aversive. In fact, you might conclude that they don’t find it all that aversive since they are so readily willing to touch it in order to throw it.
I’m not claiming that people and other primates might not find feces to be aversive, just the extreme degree of aversion postulated by CarnalK is not supported.
It’s not surprising that they distinguished between people that hurt them and those that fed them. However, for this to be relevant you would have to demonstrate that they preferred to throw shit rather than other objects.
I wish someone would tell my dogs that eating every bit of cat shit they can find is very averse to me if not to them.
In my own informal research in the rain forest of Mexico I concluded that aggressive spider monkeys are more likely to throw sticks and shake branches at me while friendly ones are more likely to embrace me with shit-covered hands, which they had because they were happily eating shit-covered fruit which was shat upon by monkeys on the branches above them. Purely anecdotal but 100% true.