So “caveman” is a rhetorical device? And you are resorting to circular logic. You can’t define a caveman, yet claim to know their practices?
You are also ignoring the presence of oral sex in orangutans, chimpanzees, bonobos, bears, bats, sheep, and wolves.
As you are the one claiming that there is something different between modern humans in a hunter gather society despite the behavior existing in our closest relatives you are making the novel claim and must provide evidence.
The null hypothesis in this case, due to the evidence, is that oral sex happened. It seems a non-novel behavior in similar social mammals and others.
Your argument seems to be that it is just “too icky” which isn’t much of an argument.
I am not ignoring bonobos and chimps. Are you reading the thread? I have clearly stated my hypothesis that our large gluteal muscles, unique amongst apes, makes our nether regions more gross.
Which also responds to Colibri, who above states I have ducked all his questions. He asked for my hypothesis. I gave it to him. He decided to ignore it. And he distinctly has decided not to admit his error that a 69 doesn’t require ass-face proximity.
Anyway, anyone who wants to debate honestly: There is a wide difference between different species on sexual behaviours. The constantly referenced bonobos have oral sex like it’s going out of style to gorillas who are much less active in that area. Why should we assume prehistoric humans were gobbling knobs at a level to be considered common practice? I saw a youtube of a gorilla using a frog for sex. Should I assume that was common amongst cavemen?
While I should avoid engaging with someone who is making an argument with jargon forms of words…
Modern hunter-gatherer tribes operate on egalitarian basis, pair-bonding and sex egalitarianism is one reason why humans were able to pass on technology that is not possible in say chimpanzees.
The advent of agriculture and the fact that male control of property happened changed this role, noting I am not making a moral claim here but stating the facts.
This does not mean that there were no wars, or patrilineal groups or that modern hunter gatherers are like ancient peoples. But there is no evidence for chronic warfare in the Paleolithic, but an increase in Mesolithic and the first generally recognized known war is at the Jebel Sahaba cemeteries ~13,000 years ago. Levels of violence probably did vary by area.
The evidence shows that anatomically modern humans did not live in small family groups like proto-humans or our close ancestors, so this indicates that this gene flow had to be based on other social factors.
Some new world agrarian groups were matrilineal, although there were many different types of society in the new world. Cherokee is one example of a matrilineal society where the children “belonged” to the women line and the father’s was not consider at the same level of importance.
Marital sex norms differ significantly under that case and without the churches “right” to controlling private practices that happened in Europe one would simply have to ensure that your partner is satisfied. Although I will admit that some concepts like divorce in the European context are fairly recent (~1400s).
The point being is that the “Mr. Yuk” claim you are making is purely due to your culture. And note there is no claim about morality at all in this statement. You would be grossed out by a Century egg too, but not everyone is.
The image in La Marche is described in many places, I just couldn’t link you to an image. Well, the drawings are scratched into the wall, in layers, and are unphotographable. All you ever see is line drawing replicating them. You can google it if you want; it’s interesting stuff.
But then, it’s one image, as you say. Well, there are practically no cave paintings of sex at all. So, no reason to believe the people back then ever had sex? No wonder we all exist!
How many cave paintings have you linked to showing some guy with poop all over his rod and some lady going “no way!” Hold yourself to the same standard. If you can’t link me to a carbon dated example, it never happened.
Anecdote is not data, but for what it’s worth, in my twenties, I spent a month camping in the Wind River Mountains as part of a wilderness school, sans showers, bathrooms, or toilet paper. I can attest from personal experience that it is quite possible to wipe yourself thoroughly with smooth stones or a big handful of snow (albeit with obligatory grimace and sharply-indrawn breath). I can also confirm that, thirty days of sweat funk not withstanding, uglies were bumped, among certain of my fellow students.
That’s enough. I’ve been patient with this nonsense so far, including insulting comments directed toward me that I would have moderated had you said them to anyone else. This is a note for trolling and generally being a jerk.
If you can’t contribute to this thread in a substantive way, then I’m going to instruct you to drop out of it.
