[QUOTE=Sparky the Wonder Spirit]
I have plenty of empathy. I just don’t make a big production of it, and set aside time/space to revel in how special I am because I have such feelings about a decade-old event.
[/QUOTE]
Not exactly what you said though, and not what I was responding too. Had you said this before I wouldn’t have said a thing, since to each his or her own. Some people have strong feelings even after years, some don’t…no worries either way, it’s all good.
-XT
Fair enough. You and I obviously got different things out of what we’ve read in this thread.
Question: Maybe best suited for GD, but I tend to feel out of my depth there: Is it really “happening to real people” if it’s something that happened to them ten years ago, and we’re being manipulated about it NOW (AGAIN?) (STILL?)?
Can I interest you in my new 9/11 10th Anniversary Memorial Pet Rock, made from concrete salvaged from Ground Zero? Just three payments of $19.95.
cry more.
How much empathy and sorrow have you ever felt for the hundreds of thousands of innocent people we’ve killed in retaliation since 9/11?
I admit that 9/11 is too abstract and distant for me to really, deeply grieve about, especially ten years later. When is it going to be ok not to have to pretend to give a fuck anymore. 20 years, 100 years? Do you feel deep sorrow every year on the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic or Masada or the battle of Gettysburg? When will it finally be patriotically and socially correct to admit that I’m not doubled over with grief and speechless rage every second of every day about 9/11?
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99]
Question: Maybe best suited for GD, but I tend to feel out of my depth there: Is it really “happening to real people” if it’s something that happened to them ten years ago, and we’re being manipulated about it NOW (AGAIN?) (STILL?)?
[/QUOTE]
Their families are still alive…they still have holes in their lives. Even if you don’t know anyone affected by the events (I don’t know anyone in Indonesia, and only have a few friends in Japan, none of who were directly affected…I DO know a few people directly affected by 9/11, and I actually was there after the events as part of a Williams team doing telco volunteer reconstruction work) you can still feel for the families left behind…even if you are being manipulated into feeling for them then and now. I still feel empathy and sorrow for events that happened even hundreds of years ago, but I’m probably a bit pathological myself.
I have no problems with people who are sick of 9/11. Contrary to what monstro said, I don’t have a holier than thou attitude about all this. If you don’t want to think about 9/11, or if you don’t care about it, or if you think it’s no big deal, well, that’s your affair…I’m not preaching that everyone has to feel the same way. It would be nice, as I said earlier, if there was some reciprocity on stuff like this, though. Sort of the way I feel about those of a religious bent…I’m good with folks believing in God or gods or whatever. No worries, whatever floats thy boat. I’m not going to try and convert them to my own philosophies, though I’d be happy to discuss (a.k.a. argue) about it if they want. But I expect some reciprocity on this…if I’m not going to cram my agnatheism down their throats I expect them not to cram their religion down mine.
-XT
Uhh, I think nobody has any doubt that any rage you might have isn’t speechless, Dio
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
How much empathy and sorrow have you ever felt for the hundreds of thousands of innocent people we’ve killed in retaliation since 9/11?
[/QUOTE]
Oh, definitely none…they all deserved to die. :rolleyes: That what you wanted to hear? The reality is that I felt/feel quite a bit, especially when I see Iraqi or Afghani children crying in fear or pain, or fathers or mothers weeping for lost children, spouses, loved ones, etc. I always felt a lot of empathy for both Iraqi and Afghani civilians and even the fighters killed and wounded, as well as the US and other allied soldiers killed and wounded, but gradually it turned me wholly against both wars…to the point that I’ve become convinced that both wars were a horrible waste and a huge mistake. I think that those who advocated that the US use more ‘police’ type tactics and surgical incursions were right all along.
I don’t see why one can’t feel empathy for both the folks who died on 9/11 AND the folks who have died in the various subsequent events that were shaped by that attack.
-XT
I didn’t want to hear anything, I was asking the question.
Fair enough. Should we do anything at a national level to memorialize the innocent people that we’ve massacred since 9/11?
Damn…missed the edit window:
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
When is it going to be ok not to have to pretend to give a fuck anymore.
[/QUOTE]
Why do you feel that you have to pretend to give a fuck? No one is forcing you to give a fuck about 9/11 or anything else. If you don’t, you don’t. It’s interesting that you think you HAVE to give a fuck though…as if there is some sort of secret police out there ready to turn you in if you don’t pretend to give a fuck about something. Sort of like Der constantly fretting that the Christians are going to get him for his atheism.
When I went to Gettysburg I certainly felt quite a bit of sorrow. When I read about the Titanic or the events that happened on Masada I still feel quite a bit of sorrow and empathy. Those things weren’t part of my generation, however. Same with Kennedy’s assassination…I was a baby when it happened, and even though my grandmother DID mourn every year on the date of his death it wasn’t that personal to me. Though seeing him killed still tugs at the heart strings.
You can admit it now if you like. I don’t believe that the thought police will REALLY arrest you and drag you off for re-education if you say that you don’t really care that much about what happened on 9/11. People might look at you funny or step to the other side of the street if you take it to Der Trihs levels, but I’d say if you just change the channel when some bit of 9/11 memorializing comes on you will probably be safe enough. 
-XT
It’s perfectly OK to let a nation commemorate, mourn, and reflect on an anniversary. What’s more shocking is that Ground Zero isn’t, well, rebuilt.
“Not giving a fuck” is a heartless position to take. People did die. Yes, people die every day, but the people who did die could’ve just as easily been you, that shit was so senseless. It was a mass murder and it changed the way we do things.
I’m not sure if the younger generation (mine?) is more likely to be affected because we grew up with Oklahoma and wtc in elementary and Columbine and 9/11 in secondary school…the latter two really wrecking our thought processes.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Fair enough. Should we do anything at a national level to memorialize the innocent people that we’ve massacred since 9/11?
[/QUOTE]
We probably will, at some point. Should we? Damned if I know what we ‘should’ do, but personally I wouldn’t have an issue with such a memorial, no more than memorials to atrocities we committed against Native Americans.
Sure you did or you wouldn’t have asked such a leading question in such a way.
-XT
You know, this teenage kid got shot four times in the back near Denver yesterday. Everyone’s forgotten about it. His friends - couple of my students - haven’t, of course. I think it’s fair to say that there are a lot of things we don’t remember, analyze, or pay respects to.
Not sure what it is with fives and tens, but a tenth anniversary is a big deal anywhere.
Is it? I don’t remember such a big deal being made about the 10th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing.
I’m effected all the fucking time. I doubt a week has gone by since that I haven’t heard a politician invoke the event, or had to deal with ineffective security theater, or heard someone throw all brown or Muslim people on the terrorist pile out of ignorance or fear.
And that’s why I’m a little tired of 9-11 and will be avoiding as much media as I can over the next week. Not because people shouldn’t be allowed to mourn on a significant anniversary, but because so many people have co-oped this event for their own personal causes that just hearing someone say “9-11” it makes me wonder what they are trying to sell me.
Convenient markers for the purposes of commercialization.
“Okay, three… two…one: Somberly Reflect, everyone!”
([del]Thirty[/del] no, make that fifteen second Pause; thirty seconds is too much dead air at half a mil per minute)
“A very touching and heartfelt moment, ladies and gentlemen; we’ll be back after this:”
[QUOTE=Spoke]
Is it? I don’t remember such a big deal being made about the 10th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing.
[/QUOTE]
And yet if you do a Google search there were memorials on the 10th anniversary of the OC bombings (here is one link that has Chaney and Clinton both speaking at a memorial service on the 10th anniversary). Was it as big a deal? No…but then the scale of 9/11 was much larger and the effect much deeper on the nation (and the world, considering our subsequent actions) than the OC bombing. And I still see shows on History Channel etc about the OC bombing and Timothy McVeigh.
-XT
Have my internet babies.
Which is a reason for them to gather together and have their own events, memorial services, family times, religious commemorations and the like.
For the rest of us, though, it’s just not necessary that we sit and review the events of the day, that we look at photos from the day and hear the recollections of the first responders (that’s one of the specials that will be on) or watch a documentary about the children whose parents died (another special) or a commemoration narrated by Robert DeNiro (yet another).
These things are maudlin. They don’t help the general public in any meaningful way. They don’t bring closure. They don’t help us to understand what happened. They’re not educational, edifying or investigative.
They’re tragedy porn.
If you’re into that, fine. But it shouldn’t be prime time on the major networks. There’s no good in it.
Hmm, and I just thought they wanted to play with your balls.
