When has a rapist been a sympathetic character?

[Elendil_s_Heir]

Hmm. I don’t think so. Rape is as much about power as it is about sex (sometimes more so, sometimes less IMHO) and, all things being equal, one who takes advantage of another’s relative weakness to commit so heinous and invasive a crime isn’t more sympathetic because of the victim’s gender.

[Annie-Xmas]

@Sattua

I think that Bigger Thomas from Native Son is supposed to be sympathetic… or something. I just think he’s a monster. He rapes his girlfriend, then throws her down an air conditioning duct.

I hate that book.

@Rucksinator

I was going to say the exact same thing (except that I couldn’t remember the name of the book). He was supposed to be portrayed as sympathetic, but I thought that the book just sucked.

@TroubleAgain

I hated the book, too, and it’s been (counts on fingers) 23 years since I read it, but as I recall, it was concensual sex, but she was drunk, and noisy, and they were in her house. In the racial climate of the time, he (black, and a servant) would have been lynched for having sex with a (rich and) white girl anyway. He accidentally smothered her while trying to keep her from getting him caught, then threw her down the air duct. He then ran away, and everyone assumed he’d raped her and deliberately murdered her.

I re-read this book recently. Bigger accidentally smothers Mary, whom he did not rape. He then burns her body in a furnace to keep from getting caught.

He next pens a note offering money for the safe return of Mary, and orders his girlfriend Betsy to pick up the cash. After Mary’s bones are discovered, he meets with Betsy, tells her the deal is off, has sex with her against her will, bashes her head in, and, assuming she’s dead, throws the body down an air vent.

Richard Wright contrasted the idea that everyone assumed Bigger raped and murdered Mary deliberately (which he didn’t) and nobody gave a damn about the rape and murder of Betsy (which he did).

I agree with everyone, Bigger is not a sympathic character. Wright went too far with the idea that “it wasn’t his fault, he was society’s fault.” If he had just dumped Mary’s drunk body on the nearest couch, none of this would have happened.

[Peter_Morris]

Eduard “Del” Delacroix, the mouse guy in The Green Mile is fairly sympathetic. But the reason he was on Death Row in the first place was because of a rape-murder.

[OneCentStamp]

@Elendil_s_Heir

Hmm. I don’t think so. Rape is as much about power as it is about sex (sometimes more so, sometimes less IMHO) and, all things being equal, one who takes advantage of another’s relative weakness to commit so heinous and invasive a crime isn’t more sympathetic because of the victim’s gender.

I don’t say that it should be that way, only that it probably is. One example, germane to my original post: it seems that any time some man commits a particularly horrible crime, there’s a number of people out there who will make jokes making light of the possibility of, or outright wishing for, him to be raped in prison. And while the wishers and jokers might be called out for being in poor taste, nobody calls them subhuman for it. Meanwhile, I can’t think of any situation where someone could wish rape upon a woman without being immediately shouted down as an all-time asshole.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

In my social circle, at least, I think both would be seen as equally abhorrent.

[SciFiSam]

When it comes to statutory rape, everyone in Logan’s Run (the book, not the movie) was raped by everybody else. The main female character was raped - in terms of her not consenting, unlike the other characters (as far as a 12-year-old can consent) - at the behest of her boyfriend, the lead character.

@nevadaexile

There was simply no reason for Abner Ravenswood to have grown angry enough to ostracize his protege if he slept with his 17 year old daughter. She would have been a woman by the standards of the time and Ravenswood would have to at least tolerated it even if he wasn’t happy about

Also Marian’s anger wouldn’t have been rational if Indiana Jones had simply engaged in her in consensual sex. She would have more angry at her father for driving him away and she wouldn’t have mentioned that was “a child” when it occurred as she wouldn’t have seen herself as being one.

The film simply hand waves what Jones did in favor of portraying him as a sympathetic protagonist. In fact, the franchise does this again when we later discovery that Jones has a “secret son” with Marian who he doesn’t even know. It asks the viewer to believe that he is a "hero " who doesn’t act that “heroically” when his actions are reviewed.

This doesn’t make any sense. You can say “but I was a child!” even if you were actually over the age of consent but inexperienced when it comes to sex.

And “no reason?” It would have happened in the 1930s. Plenty of reason to be pissed off at someone for having sex with your daughter and not marrying her.

The early draft was an early draft, that’s all. It was discarded because it would have made Indy a rapist. I’m glad they didn’t go with that draft.

@OneCentStamp

I don’t say that it should be that way, only that it probably is. One example, germane to my original post: it seems that any time some man commits a particularly horrible crime, there’s a number of people out there who will make jokes making light of the possibility of, or outright wishing for, him to be raped in prison. And while the wishers and jokers might be called out for being in poor taste, nobody calls them subhuman for it. Meanwhile, I can’t think of any situation where someone could wish rape upon a woman without being immediately shouted down as an all-time asshole.

[OneCentStamp]

@Elendil_s_Heir

In my social circle, at least, I think both would be seen as equally abhorrent.

Man, I only wish. Clearly, I need to do some housecleaning on my Facebook.

[Nava]

@tapu

I walked out of a showing of Almodovar’s “Tie Me Up, Tie Me Down” because of it.
(I mean, I wanted to see what happened so I waited until it was over, but then I walked right out!)
I think the character’s name is Rikki.

Ricky.

[Superhal]

Didn’t read intervening posts, but I watch a lot of crime dramas, and it depends on the definition of “rape.” In the Law and Order: SVU universe, for example, it’s illegal for an 18 year old to have consensual sex with a 17 year old. If they get caught, they have to register as a sex offender for life.

[Rilchiam]

@Annie-Xmas

I agree with everyone, Bigger is not a sympathic character. Wright went too far with the idea that “it wasn’t his fault, he was society’s fault.” If he had just dumped Mary’s drunk body on the nearest couch, none of this would have happened.

You’re right about everything else you said, but I disagree with this. If Bigger had let Mary get busted for drunkenness, he probably would have been blamed. And fired. Or worse. He had to see her upstairs, and if the old lady hadn’t come in…And afterwards, who would have believed him that he didn’t deliberately kill her, and probably raped her as well? I only lose sympathy when he writes the ransom note. And there’s no forgiveness for what he does to Bessie. But prior to that, he made the panicked decisions of someone for whom being a driver was moving up in the world, and who knows never to expect justice. It is society’s fault, in a sense: a society where a black man is always suspect number one.

[Cinnamon_Imp]

In the Belgariad by David Eddings, Barak, one of the heroes rapes his wife.

“Quit worrying so much about rights and duties, Merel,” Barak said. “Just go away and leave me alone.”
“My Lord was quite insistent about certain rights and duties on the night of his return to Val Alorn,” she said. “Not even the locked door of my bedchamber was enough to curb his insistence.”
“All right,” Barak said, flushing slightly. “I’m sorry about that. I hoped that things might have changed between us. I was wrong. I won’t bother you again.”
“Bother, my lord?” she said. “A duty is not a bother. A good wife is obliged to submit whenever her husband requires it of her- no matter how drunk or brutal he may be when he comes to her bed. No one will ever be able to accuse me of laxity in that regard.”

But it’s okay, because she bears him a son thanks to the rape, and they kiss & make up. :dubious:

[Mislav]

Stan Divac from Elementary. He even had an adorable dog.