When is a 'double-negative' bad?

I don’t know nothin’ about no birthin’ of no babies?

Also, There are two different kinds of double negatives in play:

  • ‘I don’t know nothing’, actually meaning ‘I don’t know anything’
    and
  • ‘There’s never nothing to do’, meaning exactly what it says - ‘There is always something to do’

Yes, that specific example is arguably pretty unambiguous, but I don’t think it’s by any means a rule that the meanings of doubly-negative statements are always abundantly clear in print.

Straight man: “Isn’t it intersting how a double negative is a positive, but a duble positive isn’t a negative!”

Wiseacre: “Yeah…yeah…”

Sometimes, a double negative does not have the same meaning as the contrasting positive statement. For example:

I never said I wasn’t a jerk.

Does not mean:

I said I was a jerk.

Including the line spoken by Prissy, other classics wouldn’t be the same without a DN.

Ain’t no sunshine when she’s gone. I doubt any other phrasing by Bill Withers would carry the same emotion.

I actually wrote a song called “There is a distinct lack of sunlight when she’s absent” shortly before Bill Withers came out with his version. Never took off, and now look who’s rolling in dough and who’s living in a studio apartment. (I’ll give you a hint, I’m the second one)

Actually, I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that ‘rarely not here’ is a double negative, just a quantitative one, rather than absolute.

Consider this list of words:
[ul]
[li]Always[/li][li]Usually[/li][li]Often[/li][li]Sometimes[/li][li]Occasionally[/li][li]Rarely[/li][li]Seldom[/li][li]Never[/li][/ul]
Always is absolute positive, Never is absolute negative, but Seldom and Rarely are also negatives, just quantitative rather than absolute.

So I contend that ‘rarely not here’, while it may not be linguistically double-negative, is conceptually double-negative, albeit not absolutely.

And, of course, on behalf of the rhetoricians among us:

It’s respectable. :slight_smile:

apparently “rarely” is negative. So, your quote should not be used. In addition, we all want to be completely understood. Your quote allows some misunderstanding by some people, therefore it would be better to rephrase. How about, “I’m rarely absent from work on Mondays.” This only my non expert opinion. :cool:

Ain’t never a good time to revive a zombie. :stuck_out_tongue:

I can’t believe I don’t disagree.

Intentional double negatives (that make a positive) are not incorrect, but they are potentially problematic and ambiguous. The trouble is that it may be hard for your listener to tell whether you are speaking logically and correctly, and so intend a positive, or you have made a slip and intend the sentence as a whole negatively. Although they can sometimes be used to good effect (as litotes, for instance), it is usually wise to avoid them where possible.

Have I been whooshed?

anyone can quote from Elements of Style or whatever. Or nevermind.

There was another thread about double-negatives almost 3 years ago. In my post there I mentioned a sentence with a quadruple-negative that I had to read carefully when I came across it in a newspaper:

This is a most non-heinous thread.

In fact, I bet you said, “I’m rarely *not *here on Monday,” which makes it acceptable by emphasizing the “not” part. Even if you didn’t emphasize it much, tone should make it clear that it is not a double negative in the bad sense.

It’s fine as long as you mean it and others can be expected to get what you mean.

Yeah right.

Especially when you don’t have nothing to add to the discussion.

I know it’s old, but rarely is, linguistically speaking, negative. For one, it collocates with ever, not never. For another, only negative clauses can take on constituents headed by not even while positive clauses cannot.

*I eat oatmeal every day, not even maple and brown sugar!

I never eat oatmeal every day, not even maple and brown sugar!

I rarely eat oatmeal every day, not even maple and brown sugar!

I agree that it’s not a double negative, but it is cumbersome and requires the listener to spend extra time detangling the sentence to extract your meaning. I’d prefer “I’m rarely absent on Mondays.”